Advice? Guitarist looking to learn bass for home recording plus maybe jamming with friends

[tedmanzie]

[quote name='Numerov' timestamp='1480724956' post='3186808']
Answering Grangur's last post:
When I was playing on the Vintage modified PJ - When I had the P pickup on full and then at the same time turned the J pickup on full - the difference in tone wasn't very noticeable. The sales guy thought that was because the factory setup of the pickup heights wasn't done as well as it could be. When I had the J pickup on full and turned the the P pickup to zero the J pickup sounded weaker than I was expecting. So perhaps the sales guy was right or maybe the J pickup on this particular bass had a problem. But it did not give me confidence to buy the instrument. I also see your point about upgrading an Affinity - that if I tried to sell it on I wouldn't get the money back on the upgrades. But I'm looking to own a bass I can learn on and use for recording and maybe jam with friends. I just want it to sound right - so would not be looking to sell it.

Answering Paul_C2's post.
I did pick up and try an Affinity Jazz - and really liked playing it and liked the variety of tones it can make. But whenever I've heard comparisons of a J bass against a P Bass on Youtube where a guy is alternating between the 2 basses and playing along with a track that's been recorded - to my ears the P bass tends to sit in the mix better in more cases. Also because the J bass is brighter (because of the 2 single coil pickups?) there's much more percussive string noise. As a novice that string noise will be worse compared to experienced players. So my hopeful idea of the PJ bass was to have that P sound as a basis and then mix it with the bridge J to get a some of that J bass vibe.

Here are 3 youtube videos comparing a P bass to a Jazz bass.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XLfd0j5G_8

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-pT2I0O7GY"]https://www.youtube....h?v=x-pT2I0O7GY[/url]

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isnyzHVoU-k"]https://www.youtube....h?v=isnyzHVoU-k[/url]

On the first 2 videos I think the P bass wins no problem.
On the third video I think it's closer - but the percussive string noise on the J Bass really bothers me.
On the 2nd and 3rd videos I believe the tone is fully on for both basses - so maybe if the tone was rolled off a little on the J bass, then maybe the percussive string noise would reduce to make it more similar to the P-bass??

So I can see the appeal of the J bass - but I'm wondering as a beginner I'm better off getting a PJ bass so I've always got that reliable P bass sound to fall back on and can add some J bridge tones when I get a bit more adventurous. Does that make sense? If I get good at the bass - maybe look to get a J bass in the future??

Thanks for everyone's advice so far and definitely very happy to hear more.

My quest will continue!
[/quote]

You've given 3 examples of preferring a P bass sound and your stated musical intention, as well as your budget, suggests a P bass would be perfect. I think you're coming at it from a guitar player's angle - thinking about tonal options, pickup combinations etc. I would suggest that bass is a simple sound - it's bass-y. You want to learn bass playing so the less distractions you have re. tonal options the better. The great thing about P basses is that they are simple and they sound good without any fiddling. There is no need to think 'when I get better I might get a jazz'. A PJ for me makes it worse, not better. There are a multitude of opinions but at least give one a go!

[Danuman]

I like what Grangur said in the first reply to OP.
What you play really isn't consequential.

Generally speaking, there's quite a lot of overlap between instruments - and what is specific to each particular make or model shouldn't prove too problematic when making a choice. It's all pretty subjective, so you might as well go with whatever sound you like best or find most appropriate.

If you enjoy playing the bass you're likely to end up with several anyway...

[darkandrew]

Being a bit of a tech geek, I was wondering why you specifically wanted a passive bass? Is it active pickups, active preamp or just all things active that you want to avoid? Active pickups can divide opinion but there's not a lot wrong with an active preamp - if you want to have it flat, then even though it may not be shaping the tone it will still be providing a buffer between the pickup and the outside world, helping to get a better signal to your amp or mixer. For a lot of players, passive pickups with an active preamp (as used in a Stingray or Sterling, for example) offers the best of both worlds.

Edited December 4, 2016 by darkandrew

[Numerov]

Tried a Squier Vintage Modified Jaguar Short Scale bass yesterday.
This has a PJ pickup configuration.
It has a neck the same size as a Jazz bass (the Precision PJ has the same size neck as a standard Precision) and was very comfortable to play.
Love that neck!!
I liked the P and J sound it made and also the combined PJ sound.
I could quite easily see myself picking this up and learning on it.

I know there's a full scale version that also has an active pre-amp.
I found out that if the battery dies on this bass - it doesn't work at all even if you're using it purely in passive mode.

3 questions come to my mind.

1. How different would the short scale version sound compared to the long scale (assuming the long scale is in passive mode). Would it be very different or quite subtle?

2. I've read there can be issues with intonation on short scale basses - does anyone know if the short scale VM Jaguar suffers from them particularly?

3. On the long scale version would it be possible to add a physical switch on the body of the bass that would switch on the active pre-amp or switch it off completely to allow passive mode use even if there was no battery inside the instrument?

Big thanks everyone!

Edited December 4, 2016 by Numerov

[paul_c2]

[quote name='bazztard' timestamp='1480763764' post='3186942']
yeah I should have said MY MIM Jazz's bridge pup is anaemic.

that's why I just bought a set of SD 1/4 pounders to try out


to the OP, the better jazz pup is the neck, so a better combination would be the J neck and a P pup, not P and J bridge imho ymmv
[/quote]

My Jazz bass's bridge pickup definitely helps shape/alter the tone. I suspect its a simple case of pickup height not optimised, since the optimising of pickup height is to balance the tones from each of the pickups (and across the strings) so they're even and allow their use to shape the sounds. My experience of cheaper new basses is they don't come that well set up and there's always a need to tweak something or other. I dare say, more expensive basses come better set up, but I don't go into music shops and try these, because I can't afford them.

[Numerov]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Tried a Squier Vintage Modified Jaguar Short Scale bass yesterday.[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]This has a PJ pickup configuration.[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]It has a neck the same size as a Jazz bass (the Precision PJ has the same size neck as a standard Precision) and was very comfortable to play.[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Love that neck!![/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I liked the P and J sound it made and also the combined PJ sound.[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I could quite easily see myself picking this up and learning on it.[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I know there's a full scale version that also has an active pre-amp.[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I found out that if the battery dies on this bass - it doesn't work at all even if you're using it purely in passive mode.[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]3 questions come to my mind.[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]1. How different would the short scale version sound compared to the long scale (assuming the long scale is in passive mode). Would it be very different or quite subtle?[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]2. I've read there can be issues with intonation on short scale basses - does anyone know if the short scale VM Jaguar suffers from them particularly?[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]3. On the long scale version would it be possible to add a physical switch on the body of the bass that would switch on the active pre-amp or switch it off completely to allow passive mode use even if there was no battery inside the instrument?[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Big thanks everyone! [/font][/color]

[thegummy]

[quote name='Numerov' timestamp='1480866765' post='3187652']
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]3. On the long scale version would it be possible to add a physical switch on the body of the bass that would switch on the active pre-amp or switch it off completely to allow passive mode use even if there was no battery inside the instrument?[/font][/color]
[/quote]

Never actually worked with active circuitry but it sounds like a very easy mod to make.

You could just remove the active preamp completely

[tedmanzie]

[quote name='Numerov' timestamp='1480866765' post='3187652']
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Tried a Squier Vintage Modified Jaguar Short Scale bass yesterday.[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]This has a PJ pickup configuration.[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]It has a neck the same size as a Jazz bass (the Precision PJ has the same size neck as a standard Precision) and was very comfortable to play.[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Love that neck!![/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I liked the P and J sound it made and also the combined PJ sound.[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I could quite easily see myself picking this up and learning on it.[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I know there's a full scale version that also has an active pre-amp.[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I found out that if the battery dies on this bass - it doesn't work at all even if you're using it purely in passive mode.[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]3 questions come to my mind.[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]1. How different would the short scale version sound compared to the long scale (assuming the long scale is in passive mode). Would it be very different or quite subtle?[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]2. I've read there can be issues with intonation on short scale basses - does anyone know if the short scale VM Jaguar suffers from them particularly?[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]3. On the long scale version would it be possible to add a physical switch on the body of the bass that would switch on the active pre-amp or switch it off completely to allow passive mode use even if there was no battery inside the instrument?[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Big thanks everyone! [/font][/color]
[/quote]

Short scales are cool, especially if you're coming from guitar, I've got a 32" scale P bass, not played a 30" but I imagine it's very easy to play especially if you are going to use a pick.

p.s. there's another thread in this section about shortscales & medium scales, here's the article it links to, very good!:
[url="http://www.innertainment.net/medium.html"]http://www.innertain...net/medium.html[/url]

Edited December 4, 2016 by tedmanzie

[darkandrew]

[quote name='thegummy' timestamp='1480867281' post='3187657']


Never actually worked with active circuitry but it sounds like a very easy mod to make.

You could just remove the active preamp completely
[/quote]
I know a lot of people worry about active preamps' batteries going mid gig but in 25 years of playing bass I've never had that happen. It's a bit like running out of fuel on the motorway - over a similar period of driving, I've never run out of fuel on the motorway either. As long as you keep your bass well serviced, including regular battery changes, it really shouldn't be something to worry about.

Edited December 4, 2016 by darkandrew

[TrevorR]

[quote name='darkandrew' timestamp='1480891801' post='3187947']

I know a lot of people worry about active preamps' batteries going mid gig but in 25 years of playing bass I've never had that happen. It's a bit like running out of fuel on the motorway - over a similar period of driving, I've never run out of fuel on the motorway either. As long as you keep your bass well serviced, including regular battery changes, it really shouldn't be something to worry about.
[/quote]

+1 to this. Don't over fret about battery life. A single battery should last you ages... six months or a year maybe. Both my basses are active and get regular playing but only need battery changes on that type of time scale. Liking the feel and sound is much more important than the types of technical spec options that you seem to be fretting over.

Here are the five main questions to be asking... do you like the look? Does it feel right in your hands? Do you like the sound/sounds it makes? Is it well made with decent quality components? And is it in my price range? Answer "Yes" to those 5 questions and you really won't go far wrong with whatever you plump for.

PS Editorial comment: we will watch with interest as your bass collection shifts and swells over the next year or so. From the conversation so far you sound like a prime candidate for GAS and for "grasss always greener" bass purchasing...

[NoirBass]

[quote name='Numerov' timestamp='1480866765' post='3187652']
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Tried a Squier Vintage Modified Jaguar Short Scale bass yesterday.[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]This has a PJ pickup configuration.[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]It has a neck the same size as a Jazz bass (the Precision PJ has the same size neck as a standard Precision) and was very comfortable to play.[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Love that neck!![/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I liked the P and J sound it made and also the combined PJ sound.[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I could quite easily see myself picking this up and learning on it.[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I know there's a full scale version that also has an active pre-amp.[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I found out that if the battery dies on this bass - it doesn't work at all even if you're using it purely in passive mode.[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]3 questions come to my mind.[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]1. How different would the short scale version sound compared to the long scale (assuming the long scale is in passive mode). Would it be very different or quite subtle?[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]2. I've read there can be issues with intonation on short scale basses - does anyone know if the short scale VM Jaguar suffers from them particularly?[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]3. On the long scale version would it be possible to add a physical switch on the body of the bass that would switch on the active pre-amp or switch it off completely to allow passive mode use even if there was no battery inside the instrument?[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Big thanks everyone! [/font][/color]
[/quote]

I would say if you've tried the SS jag and you like it, get it.

A few of my students have these and they are great little basses.

I would also add that Yamaha make excellent basses, so you won't go wrong with one of those either. If you like PJ's the BB basses are fantastic.

[thegummy]

If you think you might get into bass and buy more in future, I'd say get a P rather than PJ. One you have an actual jazz you'll wish the pj was just a real p

[Numerov]

I have read that in the [i]The Squier Vintage Modified Jaguar Bass® Special SS (Short Scale) the output of the P pickup is [/i]6.54K and the J bridge pickup is 4.65K.
I do find the P bass sound is definitely in charge with both pickups at 100%
Ideally should the outputs of these 2 pickups be more closely balanced to get more tonal variety?

Also I would prefer pickups hotter than these.

Anyone out there who can advise on the ideal balance between these 2 pickups and how hot you can go without sacrificing tone and character?

Thanks!

Edited December 5, 2016 by Numerov

[thegummy]

[quote name='Numerov' timestamp='1480966364' post='3188519']
I have read that in the [i]The Squier Vintage Modified Jaguar Bass® Special SS (Short Scale) the output of the P pickup is [/i]6.54K and the J bridge pickup is 4.65K.
I do find the P bass sound is definitely in charge with both pickups at 100%
Ideally should the outputs of these 2 pickups be more closely balanced to get more tonal variety?

Also I would prefer pickups hotter than these.

Anyone out there who can advise on the ideal balance between these 2 pickups and how hot you can go without sacrificing tone and character?

Thanks!
[/quote]

Just turn the amp up?

[TrevorR]

[quote name='Numerov' timestamp='1480966364' post='3188519']
I have read that in the [i]The Squier Vintage Modified Jaguar Bass® Special SS (Short Scale) the output of the P pickup is [/i]6.54K and the J bridge pickup is 4.65K.
I do find the P bass sound is definitely in charge with both pickups at 100%
Ideally should the outputs of these 2 pickups be more closely balanced to get more tonal variety?

Also I would prefer pickups hotter than these.

Anyone out there who can advise on the ideal balance between these 2 pickups and how hot you can go without sacrificing tone and character?

Thanks!
[/quote]

But does it sound good?

And anyway, "hotness" of pickups is much more of a guitarist obsession than a bassist worry where much of the issue is the ability to overdrive the front end of an amp - hence the endless Strat vs Les Paul debates. Much less of an issue for a bass. Your thinking in terms of minutiae of technical spec seems like a rabbit hole to get lost down rather than a helpful setting out of must-have, required characteristics (and given the elements benig J focused on a bit more "guitarthink" than "bassthink".

And IMO another reason not to dismiss active circuits out of hand because of the advantages they bring, that seem to be speaking into a lot of your worries... e.g. A hotter, lower impedance output being presented T the amp/DI/effects, greater tonal flexibility and tone shaping onboard the bass, use of a pickup pan control instead of two volumes which may give you a smoother graduation between tones...

Edited December 6, 2016 by TrevorR

[Numerov]

I won't be able to use an amp at home to record bass. How should I record bass instead to get the best possible sound?

[TrevorR]

DI of some type.

You have a question of whether you use a plain DI or a Sansamp-type preamp/DI to give a more amped tone.

[Numerov]

The [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Sansamp-type preamp/DI to give a more amped tone sounds the better option to me - but I'm new to all this.[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Did some recording with a mate who played bass in the early 2000's and he used a Line 6 Bass Pod back then[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Got some good results. Think that was some kind of an amp modeller.[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Are there any advantages to using a plain DI instead?[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Thank you.[/font][/color]

Edited December 6, 2016 by Numerov

[TrevorR]

Depends if you want to record an effected sound or record clean and re-amp/use an "amping" module later on in your DAW. I use a Tech 21 VT DI for going into the PA and I love it!!! Sort of emulates a couple of Ampeg bass amps. Others will have different views on their fave DIs/pre-amps.

Edited December 6, 2016 by TrevorR

[thegummy]

[quote name='Numerov' timestamp='1481028145' post='3189072']
The [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Sansamp-type preamp/DI to give a more amped tone sounds the better option to me - but I'm new to all this.[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Did some recording with a mate who played bass in the early 2000's and he used a Line 6 Bass Pod back then[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Got some good results. Think that was some kind of an amp modeller.[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Are there any advantages to using a plain DI instead?[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Thank you.[/font][/color]
[/quote]

A lot of big records have bass recorded DI with no amp sim.

Alan Parsons (Dark Side of the Moon among many others) has said he almost always uses direct only.

It's common for people to blend the miced amp with the DI signal too.

I have very good amp sim software but I still prefer the pure DI a lot of the time. It's a completely valid option for bass, not like guitar which would never be DI'd (without sim)

[TheGreek]

May or may not be a good idea (from a GAS point of view) but why not get along to your nearest Bass bash (check out the "Events" thread) and try out a number of basses/amps/etc. You're pretty much welcome to try out most people's gear (just ask first). Much friendlier than your local shop and no pressure to buy anything. You could also try the London Bass Guitar Show in March but in there lies much expense and GAS.

Personally, if you're thinking of going sown the PJ route I'd seriously consider a Bass Collection Nanyo - lightweight and great slim necks - and you can pick one up for around £150-180. There's one for sale in the "for sale" thread (not mine).

[tedmanzie]

[quote name='Numerov' timestamp='1481028145' post='3189072']
The [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Sansamp-type preamp/DI to give a more amped tone sounds the better option to me - but I'm new to all this.[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Did some recording with a mate who played bass in the early 2000's and he used a Line 6 Bass Pod back then[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Got some good results. Think that was some kind of an amp modeller.[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Are there any advantages to using a plain DI instead?[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Thank you.[/font][/color]
[/quote]

Have you got an A/D converter already?
If so you can usually plug straight into a lot of those (many will take an instrument straight in), and then when you're mixing use some amp sim plugin things IF you need to.

Edited December 6, 2016 by tedmanzie

[paul_c2]

The advantage is you save approx £240 by not purchasing the Sansamp.

[bassbiscuits]

I picked up a secondhand Line 6 Bass Pod of some sort for recording with and it sounded great to be honest.

I've got basses with both a P and a PJ pickup arrangement. The PJ bass is a bit more versatile in terms of slap sound etc, because of the extra J pickup, but I just prefer the straight P bass for the vast majority of things. It just sounds 'right' to me.

Either way, good luck. Most of the basses you've listed sound like perfectly decent basses to start on. The most obvious factor I've found that differentiates cheaper instruments from pro gear is the quality of hardware (bridge saddles and tuners in particular), wiring and pickups, which you find out if you're gigging them relentlessly.

But that doesn't sound like it'll be a problem for you, so whichever one you've got will do the job.

At the risk of sounding like Yoda, i wouldn't overthink which one to buy either. There is no absolute right answer or one ideal bass, but anything decent should get you going and give you joy in playing it, which is the important bit after all!

Good luck!

[Norris]

[quote name='Geek99' timestamp='1480683191' post='3186365']
Norris regularly gigs a PJ - I've had a few VMs and they have all been superb
[/quote]

I do, but rarely use the J pickup. Mine is a Squier P-Bass Special. I think they are discontinued now but worth every penny (they are cheap). I mainly like it for the slim Jazz neck and the P pickup (SD Quarter Pounder)