2016 RIP Threads

[Downdown]

I don't get it. There seems to be a general consensus that 2016 is a terrible year because so many muses, actors and assorted celebs we've all heard of have died and isn't is all so terrible and sad.

Well yes, it's always sad when someone we have heard of and have admired dies. Fine.

But what about all those people we don't know who have also died? Possibly in terrible circumstances yet are utterly unknown outside a handful of friends and families (and sometimes not even that) and will leave no significant lasting legacy of their brief lives?

In contrast, the people we're apparently mourning so publically have mostly lived amazing lives that few of us can even comprehend never mind have experienced, have touched the lives of millions, if not billions, around the world and, most importantly, left a legacy of their creative endeavours that will last forever and be experienced by countless future generations. We all die one day - the real sadness should be reserved for the vast majority who will have achieved nothing worth being remembered for.

So, less of the sadness for these privileged celebs and more of the celebration of their achievements.

[Conan]

Hmmmm. Not sure I agree. If a "celeb" dies and they had a large effect on my life, then I will feel shocked, sad, disappointed, maybe even angry (depending on the circumstances of their death).

If that makes me selfish or self-indulgent, so be it. You appear to be saying that if someone was famous or left some form of "legacy" then they don't deserve to be mourned - and that nobody other than their nearest and dearest have the right to comment upon that death. I find that strange...

Also rather a provocative post for only your 19th!

Edited December 8, 2016 by Conan

[PaulWarning]

the thing is you do feel like you know them when someone dies who you admire and grew up with so it's only natural that you feel some sort of loss and sadness when they die, as for 2016 being a terrible year, no it hasn't, we're all getting older so the people we admire and like for whatever reason are likely to be a bit older, so 2017 is likely to be as bad if not worse

[RhysP]

[quote name='Downdown' timestamp='1481212182' post='3190626']

But what about all those people we don't know who have also died? Possibly in terrible circumstances yet are utterly unknown outside a handful of friends and families (and sometimes not even that) and will leave no significant lasting legacy of their brief lives?
[/quote]

f*** 'em.

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1481213707' post='3190648']
f*** 'em.
[/quote]yep, I feel next to nothing when someone I don't know dies

[KingPrawn]

I think I get what you mean. We do tend to put famous people on very high pedisols. The shock people express is at times, almost as if if your famous you are immortal. That they don't get cancer etc. I think attitudes have changed as generally people are more willing to show there sadness publicly.

I've often wondered what the families must feel. They have lost a close relative. I imagine the fame bit becomes secondary to them. People feel they have an infinity with famous folk. Even though they may never have met. I suppose the nature of fame means their body of work lives on. It's accessible all the time. It's important to celebrate the lives of all those we loose.

[TimR]

I just assumed all the threads were bass players I'd never heard of.

[BassBus]

[quote name='Downdown' timestamp='1481212182' post='3190626']
I don't get it...
So, less of the sadness for these privileged celebs and more of the celebration of their achievements.
[/quote]

Celebrate their achievements yes but I'm not sure you understand the grieving process.

Pre-industrial times we all lived in small, insular farming communities and we knew everyone very well. When someone died that affected each one of us strongly. those outside our small community we never knew and their lives never affected ours.

Come the industrial revolution we worked in factories and offices mixing with lots of other people. When someone died we didn't know we couldn't feel that deep sense of loss our colleague felt. We learnt to hide and internalise our grief. We became disenfranchised.

Come the internet those who were close to, followed or were heavily influenced by a person who died were deeply affected. They now have the benefit of forums such as this to pour out those feelings of loss and pain. The internet has re-enfranchised us in a way we can let out those feelings.

You might not feel affected by all the deaths that have occurred this year but plenty of others have been. Please do not try to disenfranchise other people's grief.

Edited December 8, 2016 by BassBus

[HowieBass]

I'll not miss Robert Mugabe one little bit when he goes if this helps balance things out?

[Barking Spiders]

I get where the OP is coming from. I understand people who express sadness at the passing of a favourite musician whatever and want to celebrate what they've done but too often mass mourning goes way OTT as was the case with princess Diana, which bordered on the hysterical. There are also many people who've achieved important feats, made great discoveries in their fields etc - e.g. in science, medicine, engineering, architecture, environmental conservation - but because they're not in the public eye they don't get public acclaim. In the West, entertainers (including sportsmen and writers) seem to get more kudos than anyone else.

[Downdown]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1481212692' post='3190636']
Hmmmm. Not sure I agree. If a "celeb" dies and they had a large effect on my life, then I will feel shocked, sad, disappointed, maybe even angry (depending on the circumstances of their death).

If that makes me selfish or self-indulgent, so be it. You appear to be saying that if someone was famous or left some form of "legacy" then they don't deserve to be mourned - and that nobody other than their nearest and dearest have the right to comment upon that death. I find that strange...

Also rather a provocative post for only your 19th!
[/quote]

You've misunderstood me, which is fair enough as it's my fault.

I wasn't trying to be judgemental (again, my fault for not putting a on my last sentence) and wouldn't dream of telling people how to react to someone's death - you're right that it's a very personal thing.

So perhaps I'm odd one out in not grieving for celebs when they die, especially at a ripe old age. It's not out of spite, it's just that I simply don't know them. Sure, I might have liked, admired, enjoyed the fruits of their creative labour but I've known nothing of them personally, even though I'm thankful of their work and how much I've enjoyed it.

If I am being provocative at all then it's probably about the 'cult of celebrity' where people get carried away with their obsession of celebrities, as evidenced by all the gossip magazines that seem to exist these days. Still, each to their own I suppose - there's clearly a demand for such a thing, perhaps it helps some people forget the vacuousness of their own lives and fantasise about being a celebrity themselves. Who know?

I was prompted to start this thread by the Greg Lake RIP topic. I'm a big fan of his King Crimson work, have most of their albums on vinyl and listen to them with reasonable regularity, even though I 'discovered' them years after they had split up. But let's be honest, that body of work has existed for around 50 years now and it really doesn't matter if Lake or the others are alive or dead. In fact, until the recent news broke, I'd have had to guess if he was alive or dead - my point being that his existence today is irrelevant to his body of work that I admire so much. Against that background, his death is pretty much as meaningless as Joe Bloggs who I've never heard of - to me anyway.

But I get that others will feel differently, which is fine, and I certainly don't want to upset anyone, I just find it curious.

[stingrayPete1977]

It's not mourning as such for me, I'm just showing a little respect for someone who's achievements have enriched my life in some way, in years gone by you doffed your cap if a hearse went past regardless of wether you knew the deceased or not.

[wateroftyne]

If you lose someone who has touched your life in some way, you're bound to react differently to losing someone you've never heard of.

It ain't rocket salad.

[Downdown]

React differently, sure, but write up whole eulogies on the web? I'd guess most of us had school teachers who have influenced our lives more than some barely-remembered-until-they-die musician. Still, nowt as strange as folk, as the old saying goes.

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1481214027' post='3190651']
yep, I feel next to nothing when someone I don't know dies
[/quote]

I feel next to nothing when someone dies and I don't know about it.

As for RIP threads here on BC they are - as Pete puts it so eloquently - a doff of the cap. The day we start having bouts of weepiness is the day I reach for my revolver.

[Rich]

Please don't do that skank. If you took a gentleman's walk into the woods with your Webley, I don't [i]*snif* [/i]think I could carry on... [i]*sob* [/i]

[Japhet]

One very strong aspect of grief/loss is nostalgia. The loss of a musician, actor, broadcaster or whoever will likely trigger a lot of nostalgic feelings. The death of somebody you've never met or heard of won't. I also wouldn't describe a nod in that direction as an 'outpouring'. In my case it's a simple recognition that that person had an effect on me through their work, and I appreciate it.

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='Rich' timestamp='1481221105' post='3190764']
Please don't do that skank. If you took a gentleman's walk into the woods with your Webley, I don't [i]*snif* [/i]think I could carry on... [i]*sob* [/i]
[/quote]

Stow your womanish bletherings, my old comrade. Any deployment of that august firearm would be conducted along the lines articulated by [i]Reichsmarschall[/i] Goering when confronted by the word 'Culture'.

That is to say, I might take a stroll in the woods but someone would be walking in front of me.

[gs_triumph]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1481214027' post='3190651']
yep, I feel next to nothing when someone I don't know dies
[/quote]

i agree. It's natural you might feel a little sad, as you might when you hear about the death of the lollipop man you used to pass in your car everyday for the last seven years.

however its almost as if some people feel some kind of ownership of certain celebrities and therefore feel robbed when they pass. Some express (on social media) the kind of grief youd expect if they lost a close family member. 'Tis weird.

But to each their own!

[RhysP]

[quote name='Downdown' timestamp='1481216784' post='3190686']
But let's be honest, that body of work has existed for around 50 years now and it really doesn't matter if Lake or the others are alive or dead.
[/quote]

I'm sure it matters to them, their friends & their families.

[Downdown]

I'm sure it does too. But for all those who only 'knew' him through his work, nothing has actually changed.

I like the previous references to 'a doff of the hat'. That seems entirely appropriate for a passing hearse or a celeb only known through their work or publicity machine.

[RhysP]

[quote name='Downdown' timestamp='1481226452' post='3190842']

I like the previous references to 'a doff of the hat'.
[/quote]

Which is what these type of threads are. You're the only one that's assuming people are "grieving" by posting in these threads.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1481229525' post='3190874']


Which is what these type of threads are. You're the only one that's assuming people are "grieving" by posting in these threads.
[/quote]

Some people will have met, known or even be related to some of the people that have passed too.

[Billy Apple]

People get old, people get ill and people die. That's life.

Nothing to do with 2016

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Billy Apple' timestamp='1481232553' post='3190906']
People get old, people get ill and people die. That's life.

Nothing to do with 2016
[/quote]

What.. really? I thought it was!