Alternative to DI

[magee]

Hello,
I wonder if someone might be able to help.
I bought an amp head that doesn't have a DI - a Hartke HA2000. There are times when I want to record its sound [on a Protools rig on a PC] but don't want to wake up the neighbours downstairs by mic-ing a cab.
Sadly the effects send loop is pre-eq, so is no good for getting the full sound I want.
Is there anything I can do to use the sound from the speaker outs? Would plugging those into a recording rig just blow it up? Is there anything I can run it through first to take the power out of it to get a usable sound?
The Hartke has a valve pre-amp but a solid state power amp.
Any tips gratefully received,
thanks,
Matthew

[BOD2]

There's no practical way of taking a sound from the speaker outputs without buying some kind of additional hardware. The output level would be way too high.

But one thing you should be aware of is that even if you had a DI on the amp you wouldn't get the same sound as that you hear at the speakers because the speakers themselves "colour" the sound quite significantly and your DI would be taken before the sound reaches the speakers.

That doesn't solve the problem, though. Wait a while and someone should suggest a good way of recording bass.....

[cheddatom]

If the pre-amp out is pre EQ and the only other outputs on your amp are for the speakers, I really wouldn't bother mucking about, just EQ it once it's recorded. Otherwise you'd need some sort of dummy speaker DI type thingy. Maybe someone will post about one!

[dub]

You can use a box that will take the speaker out an has speaker simulation put like the jdx

[url="http://www.radialeng.com/re-jdx.htm"]http://www.radialeng.com/re-jdx.htm[/url]

Protools 8 will be coming out soon with the amp simulation 11 free which should have some pretty impressive simulation so I would wait and check that out as 8 will certainly be worth the upgrade. You can always apply it to anything you record in the meantime.

[Ba55me15ter]

You could try one of these:

[url="http://www.smartsounddirect.com/rolls-pm52-headphone-tap--save-5---now-only-2999-60-p.asp"]http://www.smartsounddirect.com/rolls-pm52...y-2999-60-p.asp[/url]

but I really wouldn't bother. As mentioned, the colouration of your signal by the amp's onboard eq can easily be done on your PC, and you're losing all the colouration that would come from the speaker anyway.

[Thunderhead]

The Hughes & Kettner Red Box will work - it's designed for guitar and the two simulations are called Combo and 4x12", but they're not exact representations of any cab and really I would just call them 'brighter' and 'fuller'. Unlike with a valve amp, you don't need to provide a dummy load on the power section of a solid-state amp, so you can connect just the Red Box to the amp.

A standard passive DI box would almost certainly work too (although without the cab tone curve), if you keep the amp at low volume. I'm not sure I would try it with an active one as the circuitry might not like the voltage levels at the speaker output. I had an old passive box with a multi-level resistive pad at one time, and this definitely worked fine - I gave it to another bassist exactly for this reason, for DI'ing an old valve amp on stage.

Either way, you need to keep both the master volume on the amp and the gain on the recorder way down until you know what sort of signal level you're getting. It's unlikely that even a very loud signal will damage anything as long as it's not coming directly from the output of the amp though.

Edited October 15, 2008 by Thunderhead

[magee]

This advice has all been brilliant. Thanks so much for your time.
I take on board all the advice querying why I'd want to do it at all. So I'll probably just get the valve-y preamp tone and, as suggested, do the eq afterwards, on an old outboard eq box I've got.
Thanks everyone for your help,
Matthew

[dub]

When you connect the pre out (no bass plugged in) have a listen on headphones and see if there is a hum when you connect it.
If there is hum, a DI can be useful, as it will have an ground lift switch, which should get rid of the ground loop that causes the hum.

Edited October 15, 2008 by dub