Public liability insurance?

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[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1482162112' post='3198128'] If the venue employed you directly it would indeed be their responsibility to ensure their insurance covered having a band with a stage and loose cables etc. Coming in at the request of the bride or the venue as a sub contractor you will need your own insurance, same will go for the disco, caterers if they are bringing equipment in, bouncy castle whatever, it's all standard stuff. [/quote]

Ah, I think we were at crossed purposes. So if the venue pays the band directly they should be covered under the venue's PLI?

It's a fair point that a bride is unlikely to have insurance to cover the band, though a commercial venue specifically set up for weddings and the like might reasonably be expected to have insurance to cover bands and the like, though I take your point that they're not the 'employer' in such circumstances.

Bloody minefield eh? I have enough problems remembering the set list!

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[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1482166874' post='3198173'] ^This. As a band you are self-employed, you haven't gone on the venue's payroll for the night. [/quote]

Surely if the venue is paying the band then they're effectively on the venue's payroll, just like the temporary bar staff? For that evening.

[Mykesbass]

[quote name='Downdown' timestamp='1482167126' post='3198175']
Surely if the venue is paying the band then they're effectively on the venue's payroll, just like the temporary bar staff? For that evening.
[/quote]
No. This is treated as freelance work. You are not on their books for PAYE and National Insurance.

[okusman]

It's a really good idea.
You are covered wherever you play.
Some venues will insist on it before you play; especially hotels/venues
It tells a client that you take your product seriously.
We keep a copy of our policy and our PAT test documentation on Dropbox...You can never forget it.
Often you can get a degree of kit cover bundled in with it.
One gig/year will pay for it.....No brainer.

[stingrayPete1977]

And the venues where you need it are the ones that pay better ime, the band have agreed to take it from this NYE gig, so £17.50 out of each band members pay packet for one gig and it's done for the year.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Downdown' timestamp='1482167126' post='3198175']


Surely if the venue is paying the band then they're effectively on the venue's payroll, just like the temporary bar staff? For that evening.
[/quote]
If I was fitting lights in a shop they would be paying me too but I wouldn't temporarily on their insurance, I'd be covered by their insurance if one of their employees knocked me off a ladder but it would be my insurance they claimed off if they tripped over my ladder.

[stingrayPete1977]

All done and joined up for the musical alliance stuff, see if we get any enquiries from it.

I didn't realise until I'd paid that I could have saved one of you £15 off your policy next year for recommending them to me!

[mike257]

In function/corporate world you need this stuff. Any self employed tradesperson in any line of work would need it. Some venues I've dealt with are very specific about getting it up front, but just because a venue doesn't ask, doesn't change the fact that you will be held liable for any loss, damage or injury caused by your equipment or actions. If a punter takes a tumble over your cables and injures themselves or a piece of electrical kit goes up in flames, no venue is going to turn around and say "It's alright lads, they can claim off our insurance."

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[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1482167373' post='3198180']
No. This is treated as freelance work. You are not on their books for PAYE and National Insurance.
[/quote]

Are the casual bar staff on their books for PAYE and NI then?

[Mykesbass]

They should be. Have a look at parts 2 & 5 on this link: https://www.gov.uk/employment-status/worker

[stingrayPete1977]

The other thing is as a member of casual bar staff you are unlikely to need to bring with you things like, a stage, electrical equipment, lighting rigs temporarily set up at height, heavy speakers on stands etc.

[TimR]

If you have house insurance you will be covered under a lot of circumstances. Have a word with them. Unless you are out every weekend they'll probably be happy to cover you, sometimes for a slight increase in your premium.

It will be unlikely that it's the venue who decide whether or not to claim against you in the event of an accident. The third party insurers will claim against the venue as the accident happened on their premises and then the venue's insurers will claim against you.

The venue' insurance will cover employees and casual staff, and they'll claim against those staff if they think the staff have been negligent in the event of an accident. They're asking that you're insured to save them dragging you through the courts and suing you.

.

Edited December 20, 2016 by TimR

[stingrayPete1977]

For £69 a year between upto five band members I'd rather just have a specific one, again a venue is very unlikely to take your word about house insurance and what documentation would you give the venue? Doing it properly we now have a certificate of insurance with the band name at the top and all four members named on the policy, we can log on at any time to change band members, band name or add a dep for free with our spare fifth slot.

Edited December 20, 2016 by stingrayPete1977

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[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1482228345' post='3198562']
If you have house insurance you will be covered under a lot of circumstances. Have a word with them. Unless you are out every weekend they'll probably be happy to cover you, sometimes for a slight increase in your premium.

It will be unlikely that it's the venue who decide whether or not to claim against you in the event of an accident. The third party insurers will claim against the venue as the accident happened on their premises and then the venue's insurers will claim against you.

The venue' insurance will cover employees and casual staff, and they'll claim against those staff if they think the staff have been negligent in the event of an accident. They're asking that you're insured to save them dragging you through the courts and suing you.

.
[/quote]

Good points. Home insurance covers a lot of things if you read the small print, it's not just for fire or burglary. Policies vary in their cover of course (always read the small print!) but when you're paying four figures for home/personal insurance you might be surprised at the level of cover provided.

Of course the insurance industry likes to encourage people to buy all manner of additional insurance and it's in their interest to talk up risks in order to worry people (and government, now there's insurance tax!). If you buy a photography magazine there'll be 'specialist' insurance policies for your camera gear, even though your home policy could cover it 'all risks'. Same with musical gear and other 'special interest' hobbies.

OTOH, if buying some additional insurance gives peace of mind then it's probably worth it for that alone and, as previously mentioned, some gigs will insist anyway so there's no choice - but that's often the way of things when they're on the hobby/business borderline. I'm happy to stay on the hobby side of the line

[funkgod]

I do my own PAT testing on all of our stuff.
As for public liability "better safe than sorry"
Its a no brainer in this day n age of " where there's blame there's a clame" train of thought.

When we load gear in everyone knows to keep all the gear together, no stray flightcases/boxes/stands.

I think its just good practice to get all the band on this.
and if you dont ... you should ! or its just a matter of time.
How many bands have you been in that when band members arrive they just leave gear in any space where they can and go wandering off ?... madness.


If that guy that is so Pi@@ed he cant even walk falls over any of your stuff...... you can bet your life it will be YOUR fault ! ! ! ( even if he did not fall over it)

Edited December 20, 2016 by funkgod