Best way to balance differing bass outputs live

[radiophonic]

Hi - I've started using a fretless Jazz in addition to my trusty Stingray. Obvious issues arise - huge output and EQ differences. This must be a pretty common scenario, so I'm wondering how people tackle it. Last night I used a cheap passive A/B/Y box in line with a tuner (which defeats the outputs when engaged) and true-bypass overdrive pedal, with the OD gain set to zero. Everything was the fed into the active input on my LH500 head. This seemed to work in terms of swapping basses easily and balancing the output, but the Jazz got pretty lost in the stage sound. I'm wondering if there is a one pedal solution to this. Some sort of bass preamp to pump up the Jazz a bit and boost it's output. I'm not looking to radically change the sound of the bass, just give it a little help in the mix. Alternatively, Boss make a line selector which might obviate the A/B/Y and the OD, but I'm not 100% clear whether it would allow enough volume adjustment. The impedance of the active input on the amp is identical to the passive input, so all I'm worried about is signal strength. Three scenarios I've imaged are:

2 Basses >> Line Selector in A<->B mode >> Tuner >> Amp

2 Basses >> A/B/Y >> Preamp >> Tuner >> Amp

2 Basses >> Dual channel Preamp pedal (Do these exist ???) >> Tuner >> Amp

What does the wisdom of the board suggest. Bear in mind I'd like to keep it as simple as possible.

[pete.young]

Boss LS2 will allow you to put one bass in each loop, switch between the two and independently adjust the gain on both loops.

[radiophonic]

[quote name='pete.young' timestamp='1482138088' post='3197837']
Boss LS2 will allow you to put one bass in each loop, switch between the two and independently adjust the gain on both loops.
[/quote]

Have you used one of these? Provided there is enough adjustment and there are no buffer issues, it would be a cheap solution and lose me one stomp box. 20 dB gain ought to be more than adequate - i probably need a little over 10 (the passive channel on the amp has 1/3 of the headroom of the active but the Jazz is still a bit quieter if I put one bass in each input)

[CliveT]

You could use an eq pedal or a compressor to boost the fretless jazz, but I'm in a very similar situation to you. I have a fretless jazz and fretted P and despite the P bass being passive like the fretless it's still a hotter output. I like the sound of both basses as they are so what works for me is the MXR Micro Amp. Leave it off for the louder bass and engage for the fretless. It's a very clean boost and will balance the outputs without colouring the tone. Not expensive either if you buy used.

[pete.young]

[quote name='radiophonic' timestamp='1482140274' post='3197861']
Have you used one of these? Provided there is enough adjustment and there are no buffer issues, it would be a cheap solution and lose me one stomp box. 20 dB gain ought to be more than adequate - i probably need a little over 10 (the passive channel on the amp has 1/3 of the headroom of the active but the Jazz is still a bit quieter if I put one bass in each input)
[/quote]
Yes, it's the swiss army knife of bass pedals and can be used to do all sorts of useful things.

The gain controls allow you to boost each channel by 20dB and also to cut to virtually nothing, so you should be able to achieve a balance and then adjust the input gain on your amp and run through passive or active input as necessary. You would put one bass into the return of one loop, one into the return of the other and take the output to your amp. You'll also need a spare plug or patch lead to plug into the pedal input jack in order to turn it on. You could also put one bass into the the input, but you would then lose the ability to adjust the gain for that bass and would have to use that as a reference.

You could also add a clean boost to one side of the A/B box as suggested above, that would probably be even cheaper but would increase your footprint rather than reduce it.

[radiophonic]

[quote name='pete.young' timestamp='1482145564' post='3197928']
Yes, it's the swiss army knife of bass pedals and can be used to do all sorts of useful things.

The gain controls allow you to boost each channel by 20dB and also to cut to virtually nothing, so you should be able to achieve a balance and then adjust the input gain on your amp and run through passive or active input as necessary. You would put one bass into the return of one loop, one into the return of the other and take the output to your amp. You'll also need a spare plug or patch lead to plug into the pedal input jack in order to turn it on. You could also put one bass into the the input, but you would then lose the ability to adjust the gain for that bass and would have to use that as a reference.

You could also add a clean boost to one side of the A/B box as suggested above, that would probably be even cheaper but would increase your footprint rather than reduce it.
[/quote]

Thanks - reducing the footprint (or at least keeping and eye on it) is fairly important since I'm in the market for a multi-band compressor anyway and I don't want to run more than 5 boxes if possible, so Line Selector > Tuner > Compressor > Delay would be keep the footprint acceptable and leave room for some active EQ in the future.

[paul_c2]

Are the above solutions which cost money, doing anything better than you could do simply by adjusting the volume control knob on the louder bass?

[radiophonic]

[quote name='paul_c2' timestamp='1482148191' post='3197961']
Are the above solutions which cost money, doing anything better than you could do simply by adjusting the volume control knob on the louder bass?
[/quote]

It's a big difference and getting it right on the fly would be hit and miss. I'd a prefer plug and play solution.

[CliveT]

[quote name='radiophonic' timestamp='1482148543' post='3197966']
It's a big difference and getting it right on the fly would be hit and miss. I'd a prefer plug and play solution.
[/quote]

The MXR Micro Amp is as simple as it gets for plug and play. Just the one knob.

[radiophonic]

[quote name='CliveT' timestamp='1482156308' post='3198067']
The MXR Micro Amp is as simple as it gets for plug and play. Just the one knob.
[/quote]

Don't I already have that knob on the Overdrive pedal? It sounds like the same solution. OTOH, the line selector replaces the A/B/Y box and the Overdrive (although costs more than them combined of course). If I were going that route, I'd probably go the whole hog and get something with an active tone circuit - although I'm hoping that a compressor will help pop the Jazz out of the mix a bit more without going active.

[pete.young]

The Radial Bigshot I/O is another option - I've never used one of these but it's designed to do the same thing. These, and LS2s come up for sale on the Effects For Sale forum occasionally, so you might find a second-hand one.

[dannybuoy]

This thing is coming out in January and looks like the perfect solution:

http://www.thegigrig.co.uk/three2one-c2x21928200

[cLepto-bass]

+1 on the LS2. I use mine for exactly the same application.

[pete.young]

[quote name='dannybuoy' timestamp='1482509215' post='3201198']
This thing is coming out in January and looks like the perfect solution:

[url="http://www.thegigrig.co.uk/three2one-c2x21928200"]http://www.thegigrig...one-c2x21928200[/url]


[/quote]
£140 quid though, not exactly a bargain!

[JPJ]

Radial Bassbone, not cheap but the absolute bassists 'Swiss army knife'

[JapanAxe]

[quote name='dannybuoy' timestamp='1482509215' post='3201198']
This thing is coming out in January and looks like the perfect solution:

[url="http://www.thegigrig.co.uk/three2one-c2x21928200"]http://www.thegigrig...one-c2x21928200[/url]


[/quote]

+1 to this, top quality kit.

[bazzbass]

keep the ABY you already have. Buy a boost pedal like the Mooer Pure Boost

Use the Boost pedal when you switch to the quieter bass. If you've set it right, both basses will be at the same volume.

Less than $100

[Painy]

[quote name='bazztard' timestamp='1482811245' post='3202853']
keep the ABY you already have. Buy a boost pedal like the Mooer Pure Boost

Use the Boost pedal when you switch to the quieter bass. If you've set it right, both basses will be at the same volume.

Less than $100
[/quote]

Basically this -although my specific recommendation would be the Joyo Roll Boost peday because it's what I use myself, it's cheap as chips and it works perfectly as a transparent boost.

[Floyd Pepper]

I play both Double and electric bass and frequently change instruments during a set. They do have very different signal strengths and after a few years of trying Radial, a/b switches / boost pedals, I've settled on the Boss LS-2.

I can set the input for each bass and then leave it - most sound guys love the fact that I take the problem away from them!
I plug this into my Tu-3 tuner and then I've got an a/b switch, separate input signals, tuner and mute all in two pedals.

[TrevorR]

I use the Lehle 3@1 pedal to do exactly what you are describing. Live I used a Custom and a Pro Series Wal which had slightly different outputs. The Lehle allows you to reduce the hotter signals to match the least powerful. Switching is silent and it's electronically transparent with no loading across the channels. Bomb proof construction. Quality bit of kit! Strange to say about a line switcher but I love that pedal!

https://www.bax-shop.co.uk/signal-splitter-router/lehle-3at1-sgos-switch-pedal?gclid=Cj0KEQiAy53DBRCo4en29Zvcla0BEiQAVIDccyUkqgtwZkdsHurQWZvkzYXpto4nWH8-wumXyUq8Sc8aAjWh8P8HAQ

[p58]

I used handmade instrument selector. One knob was able to boost quiet output, second knob was able to reduce hot output. lots of LED options (also knobs were able to be switched on/off with internal trimmer according to setting). Not using it at the moment, nobody wanted to buy that staff (I am located in Slovakia), so I am keeping it just in case...

[radiophonic]

I bought an LS-2 in the end. It seems to do the job. I've got three gigs this week, so we'll see how things go under real-world conditions.

[Ghost_Bass]

You can trade the LH500 for a 2-channel amp head, EQ each bass perfectly in each channel and just use a simple footswitch to change channels. There are a few a-channel amps out there and i believe that Hartke may have something so you can keep your core tone preference.

In alternative (and cheaper) use one bass in the LH500 with its EQ set to it, then link the other bass to a preamp pedal and Eq to taste (ie. Behringer BDI cheap and cheerfull), then link the output of the pedal to the amp's FX Return (or AUX input if the amp has one). If the amp doesn't cut the signal path when the cable is plugged to the Return you can have both basses connected with independent EQ and gain settings for each.

[Ghost_Bass]

When using a A/B/Y / LS-2 / etc. type of solution you can't EQ each bass independently, there has to be a master EQ on the amp and then fine tune it with the bass's own controls and sometimes you can't get the sound you're looking for. Best thing is to have a way of using two separate preamps, one for each bass.