Stage lighting

[wdejong]

It may be a bit off topic, but probably like many bass players here, I am considered to be the technology expert and as such looking after the entire PA system and now I need to look into stage lights as well. I need some advice. Does anyone out here have any recommendations about where to start, what kind of lighting is essential?

We do about 20 paid gigs per year and our budget is limited.

Thanks!

[Norris]

DMX and LED are the way to go. There are some pretty good starter kits around that will include floods, stand(s) and controller. I'd check out Thomann as those prices are hard to beat

[pete.young]

One good way to start is to do a search of this site, there have been a number of discussions on this subject.

The basschat search function is worse than useless but something like "site:basschat.co.uk stage lighting" typed into google will give you some useful results.

LED is definitely the way to go, but a DMX controller isn't needed to get you up and running, plenty of people are getting good results with just linking units together and using the default auto programs or light-to-sound that come with most units.

I'd say it's more important to get units which are compatible with one another. Buying them all from the same vendor will achieve this. In particular, I've struggled to get KAM and Equinox units to talk to one another because they interpret DMX in different ways and really need a controller.

Thomann has good prices, so does whybuynew.co.uk and probably also bax shop, though I haven't looked there for lighting.

Edited December 19, 2016 by pete.young

[TheRev]

I have a box full of these (or similar)
https://www.thomann.de/gb/eurolite_led_sls_180_rgb_18x1w_floor.htm

You can daisy chain them together with XLR Cables, set the first one to respond to sound and the rest as 'slaves' so that they'll all change colour at the same time. You can also connect to a DMX controller if you have the time/can be arsed to set up scenes. For a small stage, I'll set up 4 on the floor, pointing up, for bigger stages I'll have 4 mounted on a T-bar at the back of the stage and then 2-4 dotted around on the floor.

Personally, I've moved away from the 'follow sound' setting as it can look a bit school disco-ish, so now I set up the RGB profile to give a single colour 'wash' for 'texture' (quite into reddish-orange at the moment) with perhaps 2 behind the drummer set to white to give us something to see by. If you want some movement as well, then two of something like this:
https://www.thomann.de/gb/showtec_xs_1rgbw_mini_beam_1x10w.htm
At each side of the stage (set on follow sound and linked to each other) will give some dynamics without going full school disco.

You may want to have a chat with the band and find out what they actually expect from a lighting system. If they want fades/strobes/flashing all at cruicial points in the music, then that's a programmed system (and a fixed setlist....) or a lighting tech.

[Downdown]

[quote name='TheRev' timestamp='1482148929' post='3197974']
You can daisy chain them together with XLR Cables . . . .
[/quote]

Yes, but not mic or signal cables. DMX cables should be twisted pair cables and the last 'output' in the daisy chain should be terminated with a 120 ohm resistor (inside an XLR connector).

You'll likely get away with using short XLR mic leads, but for long cable runs or lots of lights if you don't use the correct cable then the DMX control messages will likely become unreliable leading to erratic operation of the lighting, which will be VERY frustraiting on top of trying to decipher the various DMX modes in the first place!

[TheRev]

[quote name='Downdown' timestamp='1482151344' post='3198002']
Yes, but not mic or signal cables. DMX cables should be twisted pair cables and the last 'output' in the daisy chain should be terminated with a 120 ohm resistor (inside an XLR connector).

You'll likely get away with using short XLR mic leads, but for long cable runs or lots of lights if you don't use the correct cable then the DMX control messages will likely become unreliable leading to erratic operation of the lighting, which will be VERY frustraiting on top of trying to decipher the various DMX modes in the first place!
[/quote]

I did not know that.
To be fair, I'm not trying to do anything more complicated than make the pretty light more redderer..

[dmccombe7]

Agree LED the way to go. I bought my DMX desk from Thomann and its pretty good but takes a bit of work to set it up initially.
If budget limited then i'd look at the 4 light flat LED packages. Not sure who has best prices these days but Ebay is always good for a start off if you want 2nd hand. Thomann are usually good too. (Always remember there are charges if you pay by credit card)
Try GAK in UK as they also have a price match thing you could try against Thomann.

I bought 2 off my stands from Maplins. They can form a goalpost stand at rear of drummer if required.
You can set individual LED lights to run a slow fade colour change and cabling is pretty easy too.

Dave

[TimR]

[quote name='TheRev' timestamp='1482156131' post='3198065']


I did not know that.
To be fair, I'm not trying to do anything more complicated than make the pretty light more redderer..
[/quote]

It's RS-485e. Good for up to 1200m. If you're running a cable from one side of a pub to the other Mic cable is fine and you may get away without termination. If odd things do happen then make up a termination plug to go in the output DMX of the last device.

[Downdown]

[quote name='TheRev' timestamp='1482156131' post='3198065']
I did not know that.
To be fair, I'm not trying to do anything more complicated than make the pretty light more redderer..
[/quote]

Whatever you're trying to do using DMX, simple or complicated, it will rely on data being sent over the daisy-chained cabling. The DMX protocol ('language') is based on broadcasting a command (data) to all the connected devices at the same time. The system relies on each device having an address (set with those little switches) so although the command is sent to every device, only the device with the appropriate address will take notice of the command. However, the device does not talk back to the controller so the controller cannot be certain if the device has received the command correctly and if a command is missed then things can quickly get messed up.

None of this really matters over short cable lengths because the signals will remain strong, but as cable lengths increase and the number of connected devices increases, the signals become 'weaker' and more 'distorted' and the whole system becomes susceptible to other electrical interference. The result can be erratic behaviour such as random colour changes, commands being sometimes ignored, etc.

If you're not having any problems with your set up then fine, but just bear all this in mind if you start adding more lights or running longer cables and if things start misbehaving then consider getting some proper DMX cables plus a proper terminator plug (very easy to make yourself) before suspecting equipment failure.

TBH, it's a shame that XLR connectors were chosen for the DMX system because it's obviously easily to confuse with microphone cables. It's a bit like jacks being commonly used for both speaker cables and guitar leads, either will work after a fashion but the wrong cable types can cause problems in the extreme. Still, that's the way it is and moaning on here won't change things - just beware the pitfalls

[Mudpup]

We use one of these [url="https://www.bax-shop.co.uk/led-bar/american-dj-vbar-pak-led-bar-kit?gclid=CLWS_Zzh-tACFQrjGwodfMEJhg"]https://www.bax-shop...CFQrjGwodfMEJhg[/url] (its actually a pair in the pack and a total bargain) on the floor in front as uplighter. You can also hang them sideways on the PA poles to use as side washes if preferred. We usually set them to a slow fade through the spectrum.

and

A pair of these [url="https://www.bax-shop.co.uk/led-bar/american-dj-sweeper-beam-quad-rgbw-led-bar?gclid=CL2MsMbh-tACFUWfGwodStoMQA"]https://www.bax-shop...CFUWfGwodStoMQA[/url] on stands at the back facing in across the drums. We dont use the sound activated mode - its a bit too full on.

And a hazer makes it looks twice as good....

All set to run their internal programs - fronts linked together and rears linked together. We tried using a DMX controller but i couldn't be a****ed to spend days programming scenes/fades and chases and then messing around with it on stage when i should be concentrating on playing. In reality its all fine on autorun and i don't have to touch it all night if i don't want to. Both types have remotes so i can change things if i want to easily.

Here you go - a little pub gig ('scuse the crap bass playing....) [url="https://youtu.be/CVYY7eCcH3s"]https://youtu.be/CVYY7eCcH3s[/url] with it all fired up

[Downdown]

[quote name='Mudpup' timestamp='1482171750' post='3198217']
We tried using a DMX controller but i couldn't be a****ed to spend days programming scenes/fades and chases and then messing around with it on stage when i should be concentrating on playing. In reality its all fine on autorun and i don't have to touch it all night if i don't want to.
[/quote]

Yep, same here. It's fun to play around with a DMX controller for a while but if you have visions of a fully synchronised light show then a lighting tech is the best answer.

[blue]

You might want to stay away from too much red & green.

Blue

[scalpy]

Like you, I'm expected to be pa, lighting, chief roadie etc etc. So I've only got into lights over the past year or so but here's what I've gleaned so far. Uplighting at the back of the stage works really well. We use a pair of these-
https://m.thomann.de/gb/stairville_led_bar_2408_rgb_dmx_30.htm?o=0&search=1482222461

Cheap and Thomann do a bundle. They run fine linked together on a standard xlr. My two sets of 4 per bar leds don't!

Somebody on here said if you're playing in a space that is lightly coloured a par can pointing across the ceiling works really well- I tried it and it does!

Lastly, rock n roll lighting is about what's happening behind the band so if you can get some effect going at the back of the stage that really helps. At the moment we use a £50 'globe of death' from maplins but will be investing in something more refined in the near future.

[wdejong]

Thanks all for your responses. Very helpful!

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1482189753' post='3198411']
You might want to stay away from too much red & green.

Blue
[/quote]

I like the blue subliminal message.