Whats the deal with Fender?

[Light Grenade]

Apologies if anything similar has been covered but I'm looking for some advice. I went around my local guitar shops in Glasgow last week on the hunt for a Fender P-Bass, I've been wanting to get my hands on one for ages. I tried 5/6 basses, ranging from Mexican models to American Standards, I was rather disappointed. I tried an American standard, retailing at £1100 and it seemed like theft to me, horrendous action (Probably needed set up), frets hanging over the fret board, meaning I could feel the bumps while playing, it just genuinely didn't feel like a 1K+ bass. I tried to convince myself that a few of them were worth the cash, but this was blown out the water when I played a Lakland 44-64 PJ hybrid. Everything about that bass in terms of build quality and play ability crushed the Fenders.

I'm not having a go at Fenders or Fender players, I really want one and I have played some beautiful Fender basses. I guess my question is, where can I find them? Am I better hunting out some old models? I do the love the P-Bass tone.

Edited December 20, 2016 by Light Grenade

[FinnDave]

I have 2012 and a 2015 US standard Precisions, and both are excellent basses, so I would say you've been particularly unlucky. Keep trying, I am sure your luck will change.

[Fisheth]

They're rather expensive now.

Some good deals to be had second hand, but with builders like the Japanese range and Maruszczyk (I'm this predictable sorry) out there, I don't really see the need to pay for a US Fender.

However they do have some corking basses out there if that's what your into.

[HowieBass]

No point in brand loyalty if the brand doesn't deserve it - I've read on here that Fender quality control was much better these days but obviously not from what you're saying. The crazy thing is that the cheaper Squiers seem to be very consistent with the Classic Vibe series and also the Vintage Modified too mostly. Get a decent Precision pickup in the right place and what's on the headstock doesn't matter so much as long as it's well put together and has been properly set up.

[Schnozzalee]

Had an American Vintage Reissue when they were £1400 and the only joy I experienced was the quick resale...

Go for a G&L mate and thank me later - I'm on my 7th and they're workhorses for professionals (great quality and value too).

Yamaha are also worthy of your hard earned cash.

Edited December 20, 2016 by Schnozzalee

[therealting]

You can get a secondhand Sadowsky Metro for around the price of a new USA Fender, the difference is unbelievable.

[thegummy]

What shop in Glasgow and which model?

I want to see this for myself, I find it hard to believe there's an American fender that has frets hanging over the edges

[skidder652003]

Gotta be worth going second hand surely? I know we all bang on about our own gear but my 75P was (only!) £1100 and plays like butter. That said the sandbergs I tried were amazing, a bit like this one http://classicandcoolguitars.co.uk/portfolio/sandbergvs4/

[Thunderpaws]

I was in Guitar Guitar in Edinburgh the other day, some lovely Fenders there at the moment. And a much improved store as a whole lately. Red Dog music had a couple of nice P's in too.

[Mykesbass]

When it comes to poor set up that really is the shop's responsibility. It amazes me that the one thing a bricks and mortar shop has over the likes of Thomann is that they can ensure every instrument from a beginner's cheapie, through to a custom shop Fender are absolutely perfect ( and still they don't)!!

[gary mac]

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1482220135' post='3198482']
When it comes to poor set up that really is the shop's responsibility. It amazes me that the one thing a bricks and mortar shop has over the likes of Thomann is that they can ensure every instrument from a beginner's cheapie, through to a custom shop Fender are absolutely perfect ( and still they don't)!!
[/quote]

I suspect the tight margins make them reluctant to spend out on set ups, even though it might well generate more sales.

[Marc S]

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1482220135' post='3198482']
When it comes to poor set up that really is the shop's responsibility. It amazes me that the one thing a bricks and mortar shop has over the likes of Thomann is that they can ensure every instrument from a beginner's cheapie, through to a custom shop Fender are absolutely perfect ( and still they don't)!!
[/quote]
Yes, definitely. It would be like a car showroom not bothering to wash the cars they are selling when putting them on the forecourt. All the shops I visit in Cardiff / South Wales area set their guitars up before selling. Sometimes they get them in straight from the supplier and they are set up fine - but they still check them over. Only one shop I know of locally who aren't consistent with this - but I wouldn't buy from them....

I'm surprised at the frets being unfinished though, I really am. I've played several of the newer Fenders and I'd say they are definitely better than they used to be (I was off Fenders for a long time, because of such issues). Try another, or as others have suggested - try a Squier Classic Vibe P bass, or a Squier Matt Freeman - you may well be blown away at the high standard of these basses. Or try a Roadworn P bass. EDIT: I've got a Roadworn P, a Roadworn J and the Flea Raodworn J and they are all incredible basses.

Also, go the 2nd hand route - there are regularly great basses for sale on here
Good luck with your search. Everyone should have a nice P bass

Edited December 20, 2016 by Marc S

[Hutton]

Any new Fender precision that I have played in recent years have been excellent bassss. Admittedly some have been better set up by the shop than others but none could be described as having frets hanging over the edges. The recent Fenders have been noted for having fret ends well dressed and rounded off to the fingerboard. I'm going down to Glasgow soon and would be interested to see this bass.

[Lw.]

I must say I'm surprised, in recent years my experiences of new USA Fenders (various models) have been fantastic. Yes, you're paying ~15% premium for the logo but they really have been fantastic.

As the American Standard's are being phased out is it possible that this shop has just got the bad ones left? Frets hanging over the edges of the fretboard is bad even for bad Fenders - I wonder what's going on?

Lakland do make a quality bass though, so no surprise you liked the one of theirs you tried!

Edited December 20, 2016 by Lw.

[molan]

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1482220135' post='3198482']
When it comes to poor set up that really is the shop's responsibility. It amazes me that the one thing a bricks and mortar shop has over the likes of Thomann is that they can ensure every instrument from a beginner's cheapie, through to a custom shop Fender are absolutely perfect ( and still they don't)!!
[/quote]

It depends on what your idea of perfect is.

I first discovered this when I set up a Fodera with a super low action. To me it was perfect, so easily playable that I could almost glide around the board with the lightest touch.

Imagine my surprise when I saw a review here on BC from a player saying he couldn't understand what the fuss was about with Foderas.

He'd tried it and found it unplayable - buzzy, clangy and not able to get a decent tone because of this.

There is a middle ground set up to a set of Fender specifications for a bass. I've used that as a general start point but found that a lot of younger players say it's too high and complain about the action.

[karlfer]

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1482227060' post='3198547']
It depends on what your idea of perfect is.

I first discovered this when I set up a Fodera with a super low action. To me it was perfect, so easily playable that I could almost glide around the board with the lightest touch.

Imagine my surprise when I saw a review here on BC from a player saying he couldn't understand what the fuss was about with Foderas.

He'd tried it and found it unplayable - buzzy, clangy and not able to get a decent tone because of this.

There is a middle ground set up to a set of Fender specifications for a bass. I've used that as a general start point but found that a lot of younger players say it's too high and complain about the action.
[/quote]

As ever Barrie is bang on right.
I set my basses up like Sheehan does, there's always a little bit of buzz.
When I (embarrassingly inevitably) move one on courtesy of the next shiny toy, I always set them back up to Fender spec.
Even though that is really only considered a starting point.

Always difficult for a shop BUT a little play before putting them on the wall might highlight any work and help sales.

Not for box shifters though.

Edited December 20, 2016 by karlfer

[Cat Burrito]

Fender make mass produced products and they usually aren't set up well in the shops. A quick professional set up usually transforms any instrument. Also worth noting that new woods shift around so occasionally a new instrument takes time to settle down.

[radiophonic]

If you are paying book price for a new Fender, then you [i]are [/i]paying a premium. I bought a USA Jazz F/less and it plays like a dream and appears flawless. A lot of the variability that I've encountered has been due to set-up and handling and this has been equally true of MIM, MIA and even Squier basses - A/B-ing a Squier F/less with a MIM Fender proved impossible in a store due to obvious set-up fail and total disinterest from the staff. I've seen necks with rough edges, but this has clearly been down to leaning /scraping the fretboard edge against something hard, I've encountered lousy action and uneven pickup response, but Fender do supply clear instructions for a baseline set-up and with the right tools almost anyone can follow these. Even with my non-DIY skills, I set up a telecaster to Fender spec in about 30 mins. A capo, a feeler gauge, one Allen key, one screwdriver and a small metal rule. Hardly rocket science. A shop failing to do this is unacceptable and just creates a bad rep for the manufacturer. You'd have thought that the company would keep an eye on this sort of thing.

[chris_b]

How is Fender or the shop going to set up a bass? High or low action, lightweight rounds or heavy duty flats? Either way they'll be wrong for someone.

I can tell if a bass is one I'd like to play even with a mile high or stupidly low action.

Fender have given people too much ammunition over the years but set up is personal and easy to work through.

[tom1946]

I have 2 MIM precisions a 2012 and a 2015 and they are great. Very well put together and well setup out of the box.

All I have done is fit pearl scratchplates, KiOgon looms with killswitches, and SPB-2 pickups.
Wouldn't change them for the world now.

[Mykesbass]

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1482227060' post='3198547']
It depends on what your idea of perfect is.

I first discovered this when I set up a Fodera with a super low action. To me it was perfect, so easily playable that I could almost glide around the board with the lightest touch.

Imagine my surprise when I saw a review here on BC from a player saying he couldn't understand what the fuss was about with Foderas.

He'd tried it and found it unplayable - buzzy, clangy and not able to get a decent tone because of this.

There is a middle ground set up to a set of Fender specifications for a bass. I've used that as a general start point but found that a lot of younger players say it's too high and complain about the action.
[/quote]
But if you felt the customer was a serious prospect would you not have accommodated them and given the set-up a quick tweak to their satisfaction? I never bough a bass from you guys, but Phil was very obliging when I bought an amp there.

[molan]

[quote name='Burrito' timestamp='1482228932' post='3198567']
Fender make mass produced products and they usually aren't set up well in the shops. A quick professional set up usually transforms any instrument. Also worth noting that new woods shift around so occasionally a new instrument takes time to settle down.
[/quote]

Time of year makes a huge difference too. Most retailers don't have the money (certainly in today's financial climate) to keep overnight temperatures reasonably close to daytime when the store is open.

Changes in temperature and humidity can make a lot of difference to a guitar's action.

We first discovered this when we moved location to a store with warm air heating - it played havoc with setup and tuning in the main display room.

In general we'd go over the entire stock every spring and autumn to try and get things nicely set up but some things still moved around a fair bit.

I remember a dual trussrod Alembic that was an absolute bitch to get just right and it always moved around with temp and humidity changes!

[molan]

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1482232047' post='3198602']

But if you felt the customer was a serious prospect would you not have accommodated them and given the set-up a quick tweak to their satisfaction? I never bough a bass from you guys, but Phil was very obliging when I bought an amp there.
[/quote]

Absolutely. I often changed the setup on a bass for a customer.

The problem is/was that a lot of customers neither ask nor comment on the action in the store. They pick something up, try it, don't like it and walk away (and some then complain about the action on a bass forum, lol).

Of course - this may not have been the case in the OP's example. Some basses do arrive with awful setups and need a bit of work.

Some come in just perfect though. The brand that always got me was Sadowsky Metro - most of them would arrive from Tokyo in about 2 days and have a near perfect setup. Many of them were in tune too!

[molan]

[quote name='karlfer' timestamp='1482227413' post='3198550']


As ever Barrie is bang on right.
I set my basses up like Sheehan does, there's always a little bit of buzz.
When I (embarrassingly inevitably) move one on courtesy of the next shiny toy, I always set them back up to Fender spec.
Even though that is really only considered a starting point.

Always difficult for a shop BUT a little play before putting them on the wall might highlight any work and help sales.

Not for box shifters though.
[/quote]

We always play everything - that's part of the fun of the job, lol

Had a few horror stories but, luckily, not too many.

No specific brand particularly bad. Had a couple of earlier Mex Fenders with nasty fretting but US always good.

[RhysP]

[quote name='Marc S' timestamp='1482223340' post='3198509']
All the shops I visit in Cardiff / South Wales area set their guitars up before selling.
[/quote]

PMT don't.
Cranes never did either. Only place I know of that sets up their guitars before selling is Gamlins. They get quite a few people buying stuff in PMT & then taking it to them to pay for a set up because PMT don't have anyone that does it.

Edited December 20, 2016 by RhysP