Key Signatures

[thebigyin]

Hi Folks
Contemplating venturing into the world of reading
Would i be right in asking if I was looking at a piece of music that was in a certain Key Signature that the piece would use notes of the said Key? For instance if the Key was say E major that most of the notes within the E major scale would be used i know there may be a possibility that there might be some chromatic runs or passing notes ect.
I can't read music so was just wondering if the Key Signature determines the majority of the notes.
Does my question make sense as i find it difficult to word what i'm asking cheers Bob

[Yank]

Well, the notes used would depend on the scale that you're employing. If you're playing a major scale the notes would correspond to the whole step, whole step, half step, whole step, whole step, whole step, half step. Other scales would use different notes. A major scale has a different feel than a minor scale. A pentatonic minor scale will have a different feel than a Hungarian minor scale.

[Japhet]

The key signature will identify sharps and flats within the major scale since they won't be marked as such on the piece of music you're reading.

[paul_c2]

The key signature indicates which notes are sharp or flat, for example if the key sig is 1 sharp (which should be F#) then all notated Fs in the music, unless they have an accidental in front of them, should be played as F#.

If you're reading bass lines then its perfectly possible that the bassline only uses a subset of the notes in the scale (so your question regarding "will the music use all the notes of the scale...." can't be answered yes).

[pete.young]

It's just a piece of shorthand. Instead of writing in a '#' sign before every individual note, it's done once in the key signature.

[Grangur]

[quote name='pete.young' timestamp='1482315088' post='3199407']
It's just a piece of shorthand. Instead of writing in a '#' sign before every individual note, it's done once in the key signature.
[/quote]
This is about it.

The whole thing is shown in the Circle of Fifths


As you can see here CMaj and Aminor have no flats or sharps - so there aren't any in these scales.
Then as you go round the circle, each step the Key gains a sharp. Interestingly, the order that this happens is the same order as the order of strings on your bass, or the order that the notes are above/below each other on each fret.

Edit: Don't get thrown by the fact that on a treble-clef stave the sharps and flats are on a different line to those on a bass clef stave. They are simply on the line that is for that note.

So in the case of DMajor, there are 2 sharps. These are F# and C#.

Actually the list is this:

C - nothing
G - F#
D - F# C#
A - F# C# G#
E - F# C# G# D#
B - F# C# G# A#
F# - F# C# G# A# E# (Yes, there is an E# - played as F, but you won't come across this one often)

Edited December 21, 2016 by Grangur

[thebigyin]

Thanks guyz appreciate your feedback hopefully i will get the grasp of things cheers Bob

[Geek99]

It's not as hard as it looks, the sig is a general guide to the notes and by inference, chords, that you will encounter in a given piece. Departures are marked by extra flats sharps and naturals.

[TimR]

[quote name='thebigyin' timestamp='1482310904' post='3199344']
Hi Folks
Contemplating venturing into the world of reading
Would i be right in asking if I was looking at a piece of music that was in a certain Key Signature that the piece would use notes of the said Key? For instance if the Key was say E major that most of the notes within the E major scale would be used i know there may be a possibility that there might be some chromatic runs or passing notes ect.
I can't read music so was just wondering if the Key Signature determines the majority of the notes.
Does my question make sense as i find it difficult to word what i'm asking cheers Bob
[/quote]

Yes.

Look at the circle of 5ths chart posed above.

You won't need to work out which key it is by examining which individual sharps and flats are notated. Simply learn that C has no accidentals and F is the one with one flat (Bb). G is the one with one sharp (F#) etc. It takes a lot of the work out of it if, when you see 1 flat, you know it's a Bb and the piece is in F major.

[chris_b]

I hate it when depping and you ask the key and they tell you the name of the first chord. . . and it's not the key. Time for a train wreck.

[scalpy]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1482407459' post='3200239']
I hate it when depping and you ask the key and they tell you the name of the first chord. . . and it's not the key. Time for a train wreck.
[/quote]

Or you get- Ship to Wreck, capo 3. Which is fine until you find out their not using the original chords either.....

Back on topic, just digest the information in baby chunks, it can get out of hand really easily! So whilst major and minors are related, get the major keys sorted in your head first, even then probably the principle guitar-ry keys like G, A and E. feel secure with those then move on. It can be a house of cards doing too much too soon.

[thebigyin]

Thanks again for your replies folks

[BigRedX]

So how do you tell if a song is in C or A minor? And does it matter?

[markstuk]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1482415099' post='3200343']
So how do you tell if a song is in C or A minor? And does it matter?
[/quote]

Easily, because the root/4/5 stuff applies (super simplistic)... This is a fantastic book to read... [url="https://www.amazon.co.uk/Music-Instinct-Works-Cant-Without/dp/0099535440"]https://www.amazon.c...t/dp/0099535440[/url]

Edited December 22, 2016 by markstuk

[Grangur]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1482415099' post='3200343']
So how do you tell if a song is in C or A minor? And does it matter?
[/quote]
One thing you can look for is the last note of the piece of music. If it ends on an A, then it's in A minor. If it ends on a C, then it's C Major.
This isn't set in stone though as not all composers stick with the rules.

Another test can be if you play the piece and then jam a bit beyond the end and end your jam on a C or A and see if it sounds like the right note for the piece to resolve to (end on). Try ending on the C, does it sound right? Not sure? Try it again and end on an A. Sound better? Then you have your answer.

[bassace]

On most gigs I do I'd get the call 'A minor/C major. The second bit is really superfluous bit it all helps with the orientation.

[Geek99]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1482415099' post='3200343']
So how do you tell if a song is in C or A minor? And does it matter?
[/quote]
Does it sound happy or sad ?

[dand666]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1482415099' post='3200343']
So how do you tell if a song is in C or A minor? And does it matter?
[/quote]

You can usually tell by the notes that are played.

Both keys will use the tonic/third/fifth more than the other keys (which is standard), but the minor key will use the 3rd a lot more than the major key.

E.g - In C Maj - C E G
- In A Min - A C E

[paul_c2]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1482415099' post='3200343']
So how do you tell if a song is in C or A minor? And does it matter?
[/quote]

If you really are reading music, then it doesn't matter as you'll be playing what's written, irrespective of the key its in. Bass will (you'd hope) have a strong role in defining the harmony and be the lowest part, but its not universal. Plenty of other instruments would be playing other harmony parts and their notes would/could correspond with various middle notes of a chord, making it difficult to look at that part alone and suss out the underlying chord(s).

Its handy to know the structure of a piece for page turns (ie if you miss it, you can keep going a bit) or for rests.

[ivansc]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1482415099' post='3200343']
So how do you tell if a song is in C or A minor? And does it matter?
[/quote]

You will feel sadder if it is Am.

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1482315590' post='3199420']
This is about it.

The whole thing is shown in the Circle of Fifths


As you can see here CMaj and Aminor have no flats or sharps - so there aren't any in these scales.
Then as you go round the circle, each step the Key gains a sharp. Interestingly, the order that this happens is the same order as the order of strings on your bass, or the order that the notes are above/below each other on each fret.

Edit: Don't get thrown by the fact that on a treble-clef stave the sharps and flats are on a different line to those on a bass clef stave. They are simply on the line that is for that note.

So in the case of DMajor, there are 2 sharps. These are F# and C#.

Actually the list is this:

C - nothing
G - F#
D - F# C#
A - F# C# G#
E - F# C# G# D#
B - F# C# G# A#
F# - F# C# G# A# E# (Yes, there is an E# - played as F, but you won't come across this one often)
[/quote]

For those with normal sight who have difficulty understanding why some folk reject score, try reading this graphic with petroleum jelly smeared across one eye and you might have more sympathy for tab users. That graphic makes my eyes freak out. It's just the same with staves with dots and little tails and cryptic ancient symbols and small words in foreign language and and and [b]argh[/b]! Takes me an age to read and by then I've forgotten where the sharps and flats are supposed to be [i]anyway[/i].

Sorry Grangur, take that with a pinch of salt mate, I'm just feeling a little sorry for myself. I have no chance of sight reading now even with lens replacement.

[dlloyd]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1482415099' post='3200343']
So how do you tell if a song is in C or A minor? And does it matter?
[/quote]

From the score? Without even reading the music, minor keys tend to have sharpened 7ths and 6ths in cadences (where phrases resolve to the tonic ["home chord"]). If you can see any G#s and F#s as accidentals it's going to be A minor rather than C major.