peted Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Glad you're still around to tell the tale. I'm sure your words of warning will see an increase in popularity of RCDs on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 From the thread title I thought you were exaggerating but fuuuuuuuuck!!!! you weren't. That is so serious, I really want to know what is the cause as I have never heard of anything like it in 20 yrs of gigging/rehearsing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waynepunkdude Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 [quote name='peted' post='307728' date='Oct 16 2008, 11:06 AM']Glad you're still around to tell the tale. I'm sure your words of warning will see an increase in popularity of RCDs on here.[/quote] You're right I just ordered 3 for the band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD1 Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Exactly same thing happened to me when I was about 16. Rehearsal at Newcastle Poly Coach Lane Campus. Was moving two mic stands with my bass round my neck. I had a hold of the mic in my left hand and the mic stand in my right hand touched the strings on my bass with the stand. My hands just locked, couldn't let go, couldn't speak - just heard an awful humming noise and felt my chest geting tighter. I fell backwards off the stage and remember thinking that's it as I was curling up into a ball. One of the guys ran over and saved my life by switching my amp off and eventually I could let go. I still have one of the burn scars on my finger 27 years later - it was down to the bone. Glad you're still here mate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAlonBass Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 I stepped up to the mic to do some backing vocals 31 years ago this week, (how old do I feel now?) saw a bright flash, and woke up in the Ambulance on the way to Hospital. I'm a fully paid-up Member of the "Back From The Dead" fraternity, because apparently my heart stopped, and it was only the prompt action of a Doctor in the audience that got it started again. If he hadn't been talked into 'slumming it' with his relatives, I wouldn't be here to annoy everyone with my rambling. Guess who uses a tester and an RCD EVERY TIME he plugs anything into a socket? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geilerbass Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 God, that's terrifying! Glad to hear that you're still with us. I too was completely ignorant to this kind of thing. Can anyone give a simple explanation as to how this kind of thing can occur? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 I just noticed your sig - did this happen in the UK or "home" in Tripoli? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolleydick Posted October 16, 2008 Author Share Posted October 16, 2008 Thanks everybody for the kind thoughts. I suspect the circumstances which caused my MarkBass combo to die are the same ones as almost led me to follow suit. without pre-empting the results of todays investigations, the most likely scenario is that either PA socket or my socket or one of the associated leads has had some crossover between earth and live thus rendering all "earthed" items to be at 230V on the equipment concerned. When one of these items came in contact with a "real" earth the current flowed. Unfortunately I was inbetween the fault and the real Earth. That is as simple an explanation as I can come up with. Familiarity breeds contempt they say. We have been based at this rehearsal location for 2 years and sometimes play gigs there as well. So of course one feels confident that all is well as we have never had any problems up until now. Clearly something changed before last wednesday (when the amp blew up) When I found out exactly the details I will let you all know. BTW to be sure of isolating your band succesfully, use an RCD at each wall socket including any ones for PA, Lights etc. Use wireless Mic's and wireless systems for the instruments - these are really effective and isolate you very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolleydick Posted October 16, 2008 Author Share Posted October 16, 2008 [quote name='Hamster' post='307775' date='Oct 16 2008, 01:11 PM']I just noticed your sig - did this happen in the UK or "home" in Tripoli?[/quote] Home - Tripoli Libya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 RCDs have been a permanent fixture on my kit for donkey's years now, and this is why. Thank god you survived it mate, history is littered with people who didn't. [url="http://www.blue-room.org.uk/wiki/Residual_Current_Device"]Good info here[/url]. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mottlefeeder Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 [quote name='Toasted' post='307688' date='Oct 16 2008, 10:16 AM']Glad you're still with us!! Would you guys use an RCD on each wall outlet your using, or just one for the amp?[/quote] Ideally, you make sure that everything is powered through an RCD, either by having one upstream of your distribution board, or having one per socket in use. The problem with just having one for your gear is that if the house PA is faulty, and makes the microphone casing live, your RCD will not trip when you touch the microphone and your earthed bass strings, because your amp is still working correctly. The RCD has to be upstream of the equipment that develops the fault if it is to detect that fault. This guidance may help - [url="http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg247.pdf"]http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg247.pdf[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KERMITNT Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 [quote name='woolleydick' post='307785' date='Oct 16 2008, 02:22 PM']Home - Tripoli Libya[/quote] glad you are ok mate In uk the plugs and sockets are better cause every plug has a switch and a fuse in it that stops the current electricity to strike you. In Greece I feel more uncomfortable except my home that has: [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Residual-current_device"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Residual-current_device[/url]. So like the guys said use English sockets or at least use use the pocket RCD device Sometime we say that English people are obsessed with safety like Fire and Electricity but they are right I think because when it happens you might lose ur life…. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KERMITNT Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 and if you imagine all of us are pluged in with wires and sh*t all the time is like we are working in a power station Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Our English sockets don't make a blind bit of difference in cases like these, unfortunately... no amount of fused plugs or switches will stop an earth fault. Doesn't matter if the sockets are Libyan, Greek, English, Mongolian or Vietnamese, we're all in the same boat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KERMITNT Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 (edited) [quote name='Rich' post='307805' date='Oct 16 2008, 02:38 PM']Our English sockets don't make a blind bit of difference in cases like these, unfortunately... no amount of fused plugs or switches will stop an earth fault. Doesn't matter if the sockets are Libyan, Greek, English, Mongolian or Vietnamese, we're all in the same boat.[/quote] sh*t mate thought was a difference so the only solution is the Residual-Current Device? by the way what is the name of that dog in you avantar??? i love that comic Edited October 16, 2008 by KERMITNT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimBobTTD Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 [quote name='Rich' post='307805' date='Oct 16 2008, 01:38 PM'][...] Doesn't matter if the sockets are Libyan, Greek, English, Mongolian or Vietnamese, we're all in the same boat.[/quote] Except the Vietnamese, as their boats are all in use ferrying refugees to other lands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBadBassman Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Glad you are OK Wolleydick and here to tell the tale, but sorry you had to go through such an experience. But it does raise a number of questions: How many times have you turned up to gig or rehearsal room to find mains sockets cracked or hanging off the wall and you've still plugged in and played? Are you sure that the socket where the PA is plugged into is on the same phase as your amp? How many times have you removed the earth on your amps mains lead to get rid of an annoying mains hum? When was the last time you checked the condition of you plugs, that they have the correct fuse rating and that all connections are secure? Looking after mains leads and extension cables is something a lot of people seem to over look. I used to run a PA and the number of times I had to re-wire backline mains plugs to make them safe was frightening - even for pro bands! Don't skrimp on cheap extension cables or mains leads - I've known cases of guys using a v. expensive signal lead yet plug their amp into the mains with the lead nicked from the kettle! Another thing to consider is that if you are using an extension lead on on reel, unless you unroll all the cable they do heat up when being used. This can cause the insulation to melt leading to a short circuit - it smells awful as well. As OTPJ suggests get your gear PAT tested once a year for your own peace of mind - that includes all mains leads. Also carry an RCD to all gigs and use it. Sorry to go on but this is a pet subject of mine - a little bit of forethought and regular care and maintenance of cables could save your life. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 [center] I can't believe that somebody was there to catch the incident on camera...[/center] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve1879 Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Same thing happened to me in March 04. Turned a mic on, couldn't let go, couldn't speak to get my mate to turn the PA off. He didn't see what was happening fo a good few seconds cos he was playing with the EQ on the PA. Like JD1 said earlier, the noise you can hear or feel or whatever going through your body is horrible! I had the mic in my right hand and had hold of the neck of the guitarist's guitar in my left. The strings burned through my index finger and I've got 3 nice guitar string scars on it now, a few other little scars all over both my hands and had to have 2 areas skin grafted on my right hand. One burn at the bottom of my little finger was right to the bone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 [quote name='BigBadBassman' post='307830' date='Oct 16 2008, 12:58 PM']Glad you are OK Wolleydick and here to tell the tale, but sorry you had to go through such an experience. But it does raise a number of questions: [i]etc.[/i][/quote] This is all good advice from Tim. [list] [*][i]How many times have you turned up to gig or rehearsal room to find mains sockets cracked or hanging off the wall and you've still plugged in and played? [/i]Yup, I suspect we're all guilty of this at some time or another. [*][i]Are you sure that the socket where the PA is plugged into is on the same phase as your amp? [/i]How can this be established? Is there a reliable way to test for this? [*][i]How many times have you removed the earth on your amps mains lead to get rid of an annoying mains hum?[/i] God, the very idea... I can't believe that people still do this. NEVER EVER EVER do it, if your amp doesn't have an earth lift switch then either find another way to lose the hum or just live with it! [*][i]When was the last time you checked the condition of you plugs, that they have the correct fuse rating and that all connections are secure?[/i] Personally, I do this religiously. SO many people leave 13A fuses in all their mains leads... trying to protect an amplifier with a 13 amp fuse is like trying to protect a kettle by using a nail. It'll catch fire before it blows! Make sure that you carry the right size fuses in your spares box, but also remember that if the fuse blows in a plug, it's not because it just felt suicidal... it mean that more than likely there is a fault somewhere which needs checking out. Don't 'cure' it by just fitting a bigger fuse... [*][i]Looking after mains leads and extension cables is something a lot of people seem to over look. Don't skrimp on cheap extension cables or mains leads... [/i] Yup! Crappy mains leads are a false economy. You wouldn't plug your £2k bass into your £2k rig using a £3 curly lead, right? [*][i]Another thing to consider is that if you are using an extension lead on on reel, unless you unroll all the cable they do heat up when being used. This can cause the insulation to melt leading to a short circuit - it smells awful as well.[/i] And yup! again. Get the biggest power-handling extension you can... many of the little windup ones will only deliver 5A even when fully unrolled. Get a nice big one with chunky cable rated at 10A or more. The less stressed the cable is, the better. Might cost a few quid more, but see 5 above. [*][i]As OTPJ suggests get your gear PAT tested once a year for your own peace of mind - that includes all mains leads.[/i] This is where I personally slip up, and I'm sure most of us here do. How do I go about doing this? Can I just set up my rig at home and call an electrician round to test it and slap on the stickers? [*][i]Also carry an RCD to all gigs and use it.[/i] NEVER leave home without it! [/list] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 So, when someone's called a guitar hero or bass hero is it because we literally put our lives on the line for this music? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merton Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Our guitarist got off lightly a couple of years back. he was turning off some wall lights whilst holding his guitar, fortunately it was a very low level shock and he didn't have his hand gripped around either the guitar neck or the lights. He needed 15 minutes to stop shaking though, and to this day refuses to go anywhere near the lights in that venue. (So i turn them all off. Without touching anything else plugged in elsewhere!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fekalizatorius Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Now that's messed up. Glad that all's well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedontcarebear Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 I won't do backing vocals where we practice now as I got a tiny shock from the mic before! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil_the_bassist Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 [quote name='Rich' post='307871' date='Oct 16 2008, 01:52 PM']Personally, I do this religiously. SO many people leave 13A fuses in all their mains leads... trying to protect an amplifier with a 13 amp fuse is like trying to protect a kettle by using a nail. It'll catch fire before it blows![/quote] ok, this is the most worrying part of your post...I have standard fuses in my plugs. I do use circuit-breaker-type ext. leads on all my equipment (and the rest of my band laugh at me for taking care to do this )and I use one of Dave (obbm)'s power leads (can't get much better quality ) but I had no idea that a 13A fuse would f*** your gear before it blows. what's a recommended fuse, and should I install this new size into all plugs, or just ensure my amp's direct power lead has one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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