PA rant! Having your own PA rant! Rehearsal rant too!

[itsmedunc]

Been working on moving the band onto in ears. It started out mostly to minimise equipment as nobody will store any PA equipment apart from me (I have no room either!) So far, most members are willing. I can understand not wanting to but the last gig we played, the volume onstage was ridiculous. I didn't have the chance to set up in ears. We were on with no soundcheck due to time constraints. Multi band thing with in house rig. It honestly shouldn't have happened.

I've have never experienced anything like it. I could feel the pressure of the volume in my ears. Everything sounded out of tune even though it wasnt. I've experienced that before but not to that extent. The volume onstage was a joke. That was a month ago and I still hear a ringing in my left ear. My hearing is damaged as a result and that's it as far as I'm concerned.

Since then, I've been trying to sort out the in ears properly but still there's reluctance from a couple of members. I wouldn't mind so much but I store and maintain our own PA (the Mrs is not happy as I've got PA stuff all over the house!). Sort out its transport to and fro and setup (now reluctantly). I've asked those not willing to use in ear to take and store the monitors they would need to their houses but to no avail. They have no room apparently. Aaaaaagh!

OK moving on. I've bought a Jamhub to try and rehearse silently through headphones as even our rehearsals are far too loud. Everybody can have their own mix. Any member can be as loud as they like. It will protect our hearing and it will improve our performance as we will be able to properly hear what we are playing. We could rehearse at mine or anywhere for free too.

We have a really nice Yamaha DXT electronic kit, which the drummer loves but will use an acoustic kit live, a BD for the bass that sounds great, a Line 6 Amplifi guitar combo that has a really nice emulated Fender Blackface for the rhythm. All will go straight into the Jamhub and allow an almost silent rehearsal. Unfortunately, the lead guitarist (who is a star really), appears to think he has to be trouser flapping loud. He doesn't like E kits either. He thinks he will just sound sh*t without valves and a cab. I don't think he has any faith in emulators etc. This is all without even trying it. Kid gloves are needed to even approach the subject. This is for rehearsals after all.

Our drummer is a fireman and said there is no way he would have passed his medical after the last gig as he was deaf for days after! Even when we use our own rig we all complain about the volume of the guitarist. Our engineer constantly has issues as he is that loud onstage he is louder than the PA out front.

I really want the Jamhub to work, to play live at a comfortable volume and to save my hearing. Yes this is a rant but I only want folk to be a bit more flexible and understanding! Is it just me?

Edited December 30, 2016 by itsmedunc

[bazzbass]

too late. You have tinnitus. For life.

It will only get worse. You didn't wear ear plugs?

I discovered good ear plugs when it was way too late.


I've lived with loud tinnitus for over 35 years, my hearing in my right ear, the one that was next to the bloody drummer's cymbals, is about 50%.

I used to larf at electronic drums in the 80s and 90s. Now I long for our drummer to use them in our band, won't happen.

[itsmedunc]

[quote name='bazztard' timestamp='1483069298' post='3204545']
too late. You have tinnitus. For life.

It will only get worse. You didn't wear ear plugs?

I discovered good ear plugs when it was way too late.


I've lived with loud tinnitus for over 35 years, my hearing in my right ear, the one that was next to the bloody drummer's cymbals, is about 50%.

I used to larf at electronic drums in the 80s and 90s. Now I long for our drummer to use them in our band, won't happen.
[/quote]

Didnt use plugs but having moulds made asap. The irony is, that was the last gig before in ears would have been the norm for me! I just thoight, fek it, it will be ok. A mate of mine who has always played in "loud" thrash bands can no longer play. He swears he hasn't slept in years due to tinitus.

Edited December 30, 2016 by itsmedunc

[SpondonBassed]

Sorry to hear that. Have you considered asking the guitarist when he/she had their hearing checked last? Do this after you've had yours checked and can produce evidence of the damage caused. No need to point fingers. Have a friendly, round-table discussion and move forward because as a band this is a serious matter that has already affected one of its members' health.

Good wishes for your continued performance.

[stingrayPete1977]

I've yet to witness first hand or hear of a guitarist that has altered their ways. The ones that need to do it at rehearsal are normally a lost cause.

[Muppet]

Try recording rehearsals and play them back to your guitarist. The rest of you could always play quieter than normal for effect!

[dmccombe7]

For me it would be a deciding factor to leave the band or replace the guitarist for simply being stupid.
I bought ACS earplugs because drummer in a new band i joined was a bit loud and didn't want to risk hearing damage however the original band members had already discussed with him and for few other reasons added into it he was replaced and we now rehearse at a very reasonable volume.

I was considering leaving within few rehearsals before he was replaced as it was uncomfortable but what really annoyed me was the fact he thought it was funny.

Dave

[Graham]

Tell the members who are reluctant to use IEM that you're selling the wedges, if they want monitoring they will have to buy (and store) their own, I suspect they'll see the merits of the small footprint of IEM quite quickly.

[ezbass]

This
[quote name='Graham' timestamp='1483087744' post='3204588']
Tell the members who are reluctant to use IEM that you're selling the wedges, if they want monitoring they will have to buy (and store) their own, I suspect they'll see the merits of the small footprint of IEM quite quickly.
[/quote]

[Woodinblack]

I don't actually see the problem there, without being even in the slightest bit awkward, if you don't want to use monitors then why on earth are you storing them? I agree with the others, say you can't store them any more, and do they want them as you need them gone by next month or they are going as they aren't something you use.
Doing someone a favour is good, doing someone a favour at your own cost while they refuse to help is frankly a bit silly.

Our band is ridiculously loud, which I have tried to do something about, they are younger and find it funny. Fine, I wear earplugs (we mostly all do), so always sound worse than we could if we played a bit quieter.
I do have a jamhub but never had an electronic kit.

[Happy Jack]

The more you do for people, the more they'll let you do.

As another serious tinnitus sufferer, I have zero sympathy these days with turn-it-up clowns and I certainly wouldn't be prepared to disrupt my own life to help them with their big swinging dickery.

If your guitarist is really a star, he'll get you access all areas next time he plays Wembley or the O2. Otherwise, he can turn down.

[Painy]

I play in a rock covers band which does have a reputation for being particularly loud but I've never come off stage feeling like my head has been rattled in the way the OP described it (I do suffer from tinnitus but that's been a gradually accumulative thing over the years rather than one explosively loud gig causing it) so I do wonder just how loud exactly this would be to have that effect. If a guitarist I played with couldn't show enough consideration for his bandmates' well-being to just turn down a bit he'd be shown the door or I'd be gone myself.
We, as a band set our levels so there's is a good mix out front as we take the view that it's what the punters hear that matters. If one of us can't hear ourselves we look at positioning on stage rather than turn up louder which works most of the time.
Singer/rhythm guitarist and myself (I also sing BVs) however have just gone over to IEMs and it makes a huge difference. Still have our backline as the main source of our sound out front but the noise cancelling earphones cut the overall volume a lot but with a nice clear mix too. Seems like a no brainer to me.

Edited December 30, 2016 by Painy

[Owen]

Been there. Done that. I presume they are paying you extra for running this rig.

You can get a new band. You can get a new guitarist. You cannot get new ears. It is that simple.

[machinehead]

I have never, ever had to ask a guitarist to turn UP his volume. Most (all?) of them seem to be incurable.

I think what you are suggesting is totally reasonable and what's important too is that excessive volume is the killer of good musicianship and audience enjoyment.

Stick to your guns.

Frank.

[JapanAxe]

Some options:[list]
[*]At the end of the next gig, leave the monitors in the middle of the floor and tell the band that whoever wants to use them on future gigs can take them home, 'cos you won't be.
[*]Sell the monitors. If they were band property, split the money.
[*]Leave the band and find one with fewer selfish idiots in it.
[/list]

[Downdown]

I think this sort of thing goes with the territory - probably always has done, probably always will. It's the 'triumph' of youthful stupidity over the wisdom of age and happens in all manner of things.

I shoot a fair bit and have done from a very young age so I've always been careful about ear protection - it wasn't difficult 30 years ago and it's even easier these days.

I don't bother wasting my time preaching to the unconvinced/unconvinceable anymore, even though they all know about tinnitus - a special kind of stupid I guess.

All you can do is look after your own ears.

[Cuzzie]

We went to quiet rehearsal without a jam hub, although i looked at it as soon as our drummer got an electric kit. I use a HArtke HD25 on about 2-3 for the loudest volume in practice. The electronic kit also forces the drummer to have some of the PA at his house, as he needs it to play not through ear phones!

If everyone else wants the jam hub, then all hook up to it leaving the guitarist out, he will soon learn that if he is to hear anyone else play he will have to plug in.
If he feels he needs to crank his amp to get the sound he wants, go and tell him to buy a TORPEDO LIVE which means he can get 'his sound' but it will step down the volume for everyone else, but that will be at his expense and it ain't cheap.
Maybe that will bring him round.

I have tinnitus, fortunately my hearing is still pretty good, but it ain't fun....

[mrtcat]

Any guitarist happy to blow the front of house mix for his own selfish reasons isn't a star. He's an idiot. Get shot of him.
As said before, simply stop taking the monitors as they only benefit the other guys. Let them fight over who stores them. In ear monitoring is the future so you're absolutely right to pursue it.

[itsmedunc]

Gigged tonight in a medium sized pub. Probably would hold 200 maybe 250 people max. That includes all the regulars who drink there! Same issues with the guitarists volume. I had the in ears going this time and it sounded great! Cant believe I haven't been using them for years!
Didnt take any monitoring for them but informed the singer to take his 2 400w powered cabs. Apparently, they were on max and not loud enough? They only had vocals through them! It was definitely stage volume again. However, the gig was good, my hearing is no worse for wear and we got paid!

I told them I won't be taking the usual monitoring and it's now up for sale. I'm hopeful this tactic will work! Cheers lads!

[SpondonBassed]

May I wish you and the band continuing progress during the coming year.

[Cuzzie]

Glad it was way better for you.

Now with in ears make sure you have wireless for your bass and you can sit in the audience and play to get away from the horribly loud guitar altogether

[MoonBassAlpha]

Out of interest, what amp is your guitarist using onstage?

[Skybone]

Yup, tinnitus is for life, not just for Christmas.

Like most, I started using earplugs too late, the damage was already done.

[itsmedunc]

[quote name='MoonBassAlpha' timestamp='1483181540' post='3205226']
Out of interest, what amp is your guitarist using onstage?
[/quote]

It can vary. He has loads of gear. Last night it was an Orange head and 12" Orange cab, may have been a 15" though. Quite minimal really. I did notice a Fender combo as well. He has been known to link setups!

[Dan Dare]

Time to move on unless the issues are sorted? Find a new band for the new year? They'll have problems finding a bass player with a PA who stores (and presumably transports) it. Not worth playing with idiots who are intent on deafening everyone. Been there, done that. Your hearing is worth far more.