Mariah's meltdown

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='MacDaddy' timestamp='1483616788' post='3208662']
not always

[url="https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=NASA+staff+scandal&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b&gfe_rd=cr&ei=jTFuWIziD87O8gfDl7e4Aw#q=nasa+staff+mistakes"]https://www.google.c...+staff+mistakes[/url]

[/quote]

I think my point went over your head. NASA, like everybody else make mistakes... like sound engineers...

[quote]
and excuse me for being obvious, but putting on a gig is not rocket science!
[/quote]

Again, of course it isn't. It was a comparison between doing a job and getting it right.

I bet you're fun at parties.

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='Hutton' timestamp='1483617074' post='3208670']
I don't have the technical knowledge to comment on this but I was thinking that if Mariah Carey could have performed she would have as she has been doing just that for a long time now. The fact that she had to abort the performance would suggest to me that things were well out of her control. She would surely know that there would be no point in continuing and producing a performance that she would later regret. An unfortunate set of circumstances here which led to her doing the only sensible thing.
[/quote]

^ not a numbskull.

[MacDaddy]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1483617389' post='3208672']
I think my point went over your head. NASA, like everybody else make mistakes... like sound engineers...



Again, of course it isn't. It was a comparison between doing a job and getting it right.

I bet you're fun at parties.
[/quote]

Nah, comparing sound engineers to NASA can only lead to the afforementioned quip

But you are free to think what you like, and I'm not gonna stop you betting.

[taunton-hobbit]

...... not sure about the handles.......

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='MacDaddy' timestamp='1483622572' post='3208728']
Nah, comparing sound engineers to NASA can only lead to the afforementioned quip
[/quote]
Not really because if you were up on your NASA facts, you would be aware of the audio development lab, that you have to admit, does have more than a passing relevance to sound engineering.

[MacDaddy]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1483623862' post='3208749']
Not really because if you were up on your NASA facts, you would be aware of the audio development lab, that you have to admit, does have more than a passing relevance to sound engineering.
[/quote]

now who's fun at parties?

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='MacDaddy' timestamp='1483625927' post='3208777']


now who's fun at parties?
[/quote]

Your mum, apparently

[MacDaddy]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1483626055' post='3208779']
Your mum, apparently
[/quote]

[roonjuice]

My Mam is fun at parties. She can drink a pint of Guinness in less than 3 seconds, and get her leg behind her head😛

[EBS_freak]

MD - You always have a real problem with me don't you?

Here you go, have the thread if it makes you happy.

Edited January 5, 2017 by EBS_freak

[MacDaddy]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1483629484' post='3208825']
MD - You always have a real problem with me don't you?


[/quote]

not at all.

[dmccombe7]

So what is the thread about again ?

Dave

[spectoremg]

EBS_freak - is that because you're freakishly an expert on Every Bloody Subject?

Edited January 5, 2017 by spectoremg

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='spectoremg' timestamp='1483650948' post='3209069']
EBS_freak - is that because you're freakishly an expert on Every Bloody Subject?
[/quote]

I know nowt about football if that helps.

[Wiggybass]

I've been watching the pro audio forums since this fiasco first broke. As in most situations there is probably a grain of truth in everyone's story but I can say this for certain:

* The sound company was Maryland Sound, one of the most respected providers in the US and the company who have done the Times Square NYE event for 20 years, in addition to dozens of other national-profile events including the Presidential Inauguration.

* Their team would have been on site many hours before La Carey and part of their routine would have been to conduct an RF scan to secure frequencies suitable for use that evening. They would undoubtedly have had backup systems in place for [i]everything[/i] and there was definitely a row of wedges on stage which were on and working. Frankly I'd bet my house that every single piece of audio gear on that stage was not only working perfectly (as stated by Maryland's MD Bob Goldstein in an email to the New York Times) but was also being operated by hugely experienced professionals at the top of their game.

* In pro-audio it is not what happens to you - it's how you react to it. Real audio professionals get to be that by dealing with the unexpected every day and I assure you, this situation was nothing that they hadn't handled before, many times. Those guys would have done absolutely everything humanly possible to bring that show in, that's what they do.

* There are numerous references to the backing tracks being different to what Ms Carey was expecting, not different songs but different mixes (i.e. with varying amounts of her vocal on - allegedly she prefers to avoid the high notes now). Personally I think it's probable that the sound company played the tracks they'd been given in good faith but they were, for some reason, not what she was expecting.

* It's also apparent that she didn't show up for the pre-show run-through, getting a stand-in to do that for her. How effective that might be I'll leave to the reader's own judgement.

And yes, I do work in professional audio and no, I am not impressed by 'talent' who can't even sing their own bloody songs, even if they have got a great arse. Rant over.

[dmccombe7]

[quote name='Wiggybass' timestamp='1483653237' post='3209102']
I've been watching the pro audio forums since this fiasco first broke. As in most situations there is probably a grain of truth in everyone's story but I can say this for certain:

* The sound company was Maryland Sound, one of the most respected providers in the US and the company who have done the Times Square NYE event for 20 years, in addition to dozens of other national-profile events including the Presidential Inauguration.

* Their team would have been on site many hours before La Carey and part of their routine would have been to conduct an RF scan to secure frequencies suitable for use that evening. They would undoubtedly have had backup systems in place for [i]everything[/i] and there was definitely a row of wedges on stage which were on and working. Frankly I'd bet my house that every single piece of audio gear on that stage was not only working perfectly (as stated by Maryland's MD Bob Goldstein in an email to the New York Times) but was also being operated by hugely experienced professionals at the top of their game.

* In pro-audio it is not what happens to you - it's how you react to it. Real audio professionals get to be that by dealing with the unexpected every day and I assure you, this situation was nothing that they hadn't handled before, many times. Those guys would have done absolutely everything humanly possible to bring that show in, that's what they do.

* There are numerous references to the backing tracks being different to what Ms Carey was expecting, not different songs but different mixes (i.e. with varying amounts of her vocal on - allegedly she prefers to avoid the high notes now). Personally I think it's probable that the sound company played the tracks they'd been given in good faith but they were, for some reason, not what she was expecting.

* It's also apparent that she didn't show up for the pre-show run-through, getting a stand-in to do that for her. How effective that might be I'll leave to the reader's own judgement.

And yes, I do work in professional audio and no, I am not impressed by 'talent' who can't even sing their own bloody songs, even if they have got a great arse. Rant over.
[/quote]

Good rant altho i think it puts across a very valid point that i would probably agree with. Well put across and good explanation and description of how things would have operated.
I'll go with this
Dave

[EBS_freak]

I agree with all of the above - but unless MC is very good at acting, there's defo something going on with the feed to those IEMs.

[peteb]

Facebook post from Jay Stollman (ace American blues/rock/soul singer) on the Mariah situation:

"Leave Mariah alone! Seriously! She's an amazing singer...doesn't need to prove anything! There was a technical screw up and she didn't handle it too well. I'm defending her! Here's the deal.... she does not have the experience of live performance that a lot of us have. Here's a little story and hopefully some perspective......
Back in the 90's, my band played a party for Mariah and Tommy Mottola....a little party in Armonk NY to celebrate the end of a tour. Mariah, Tommy, band and crew were all there. After dinner, Tommy got up to sing with me.... then, band members and singers started to sit in... eventually the whole party had joined the band except one person.... Mariah. I left the stage while everyone was jamming and went to talk to her.
JS - Hey Mariah...first of all thanks for having us!
MC - Thank YOU....the band is great!
JS - You know, you're welcome to join us and sit in.
MC - Oh God NO.....I could never do that.
JS - What????
MC - I can't do what you do. I can't just wing it. I do my songs...my arrangements...exactly as rehearsed.... all planned and worked out.
JS - Are you sure....do you know like.... Chain of Fools or one of the usual "standards"?
MC - I can't. I would never just wing it.
JS - Well....you know you're welcomed to join us if you change your mind.
MC - I won't.... but thanks!

Think about it.... from the beginning of her career, she never did the kind of live gigs most musicians have to do. She had a full production staff and everything was worked out. How many gigs have I done were there were "issues".... thousands! Mariah? Probably only a few, in comparison. She might not be as skilled or experienced at dealing with these issues as some of us. Do I know how to handle sh*t that happens...? sure. Does she? Maybe, not so much...as it's not a usual occurrence of her gig life. "

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1483657415' post='3209162']
Facebook post from Jay Stollman (ace American blues/rock/soul singer) on the Mariah situation:

"Leave Mariah alone! Seriously! She's an amazing singer...doesn't need to prove anything! There was a technical screw up and she didn't handle it too well. I'm defending her! Here's the deal.... she does not have the experience of live performance that a lot of us have. Here's a little story and hopefully some perspective......
Back in the 90's, my band played a party for Mariah and Tommy Mottola....a little party in Armonk NY to celebrate the end of a tour. Mariah, Tommy, band and crew were all there. After dinner, Tommy got up to sing with me.... then, band members and singers started to sit in... eventually the whole party had joined the band except one person.... Mariah. I left the stage while everyone was jamming and went to talk to her.
JS - Hey Mariah...first of all thanks for having us!
MC - Thank YOU....the band is great!
JS - You know, you're welcome to join us and sit in.
MC - Oh God NO.....I could never do that.
JS - What????
MC - I can't do what you do. I can't just wing it. I do my songs...my arrangements...exactly as rehearsed.... all planned and worked out.
JS - Are you sure....do you know like.... Chain of Fools or one of the usual "standards"?
MC - I can't. I would never just wing it.
JS - Well....you know you're welcomed to join us if you change your mind.
MC - I won't.... but thanks!

Think about it.... from the beginning of her career, she never did the kind of live gigs most musicians have to do. She had a full production staff and everything was worked out. How many gigs have I done were there were "issues".... thousands! Mariah? Probably only a few, in comparison. She might not be as skilled or experienced at dealing with these issues as some of us. Do I know how to handle sh*t that happens...? sure. Does she? Maybe, not so much...as it's not a usual occurrence of her gig life. "
[/quote]

Well, she's made gazillions of quid out of doing it her way, but now it's bitten her on her the arse.

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1483657636' post='3209165']


Well, she's made gazillions of quid out of doing it her way, but now it's bitten her on her the arse.
[/quote]

And that's a big bite.

Still comes down to the fact she is more in a theatre role than the stuff the majority in here can relate to.

Edited January 5, 2017 by EBS_freak

[peteb]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1483657636' post='3209165']
Well, she's made gazillions of quid out of doing it her way, but now it's bitten her on her the arse.
[/quote]
Indeed...

To suggest that she is ‘talentless’ (as some have) is ridiculous – amazing singer. But the downside of being parachuted into stardom on the basis of a demo tape (and the infatuation of the boss of the record company) without paying her dues on the live circuit means that she obviously is not prepared to handle situations like the NYE debacle!

No one died and I am sure that she will eventually live it down…

Edited January 5, 2017 by peteb

[chrisanthony1211]

[quote name='Wiggybass' timestamp='1483653237' post='3209102']
I am not impressed by 'talent' who can't even sing their own bloody songs, even if they have got a great arse. Rant over.
[/quote]
Cant say I agree with this, great ass is pretty high on the list of must haves for me....😬

Edited January 6, 2017 by chrisanthony1211

[Huge Hands]

[quote name='Wiggybass' timestamp='1483653237' post='3209102']
I've been watching the pro audio forums since this fiasco first broke. As in most situations there is probably a grain of truth in everyone's story but I can say this for certain:

* The sound company was Maryland Sound, one of the most respected providers in the US and the company who have done the Times Square NYE event for 20 years, in addition to dozens of other national-profile events including the Presidential Inauguration.

* Their team would have been on site many hours before La Carey and part of their routine would have been to conduct an RF scan to secure frequencies suitable for use that evening. They would undoubtedly have had backup systems in place for [i]everything[/i] and there was definitely a row of wedges on stage which were on and working. Frankly I'd bet my house that every single piece of audio gear on that stage was not only working perfectly (as stated by Maryland's MD Bob Goldstein in an email to the New York Times) but was also being operated by hugely experienced professionals at the top of their game.

* In pro-audio it is not what happens to you - it's how you react to it. Real audio professionals get to be that by dealing with the unexpected every day and I assure you, this situation was nothing that they hadn't handled before, many times. Those guys would have done absolutely everything humanly possible to bring that show in, that's what they do.

* There are numerous references to the backing tracks being different to what Ms Carey was expecting, not different songs but different mixes (i.e. with varying amounts of her vocal on - allegedly she prefers to avoid the high notes now). Personally I think it's probable that the sound company played the tracks they'd been given in good faith but they were, for some reason, not what she was expecting.

* It's also apparent that she didn't show up for the pre-show run-through, getting a stand-in to do that for her. How effective that might be I'll leave to the reader's own judgement.

And yes, I do work in professional audio and no, I am not impressed by 'talent' who can't even sing their own bloody songs, even if they have got a great arse. Rant over.
[/quote]

I don't get it. Even the most prepared technical crews can get it wrong, or have failures that happen out of their control. You must know this if, like me you have worked in pro audio. How do you know the wedges were working, to a point where they were useable? I too would always defend my fellow professionals when I can, but to say they are blameless, I think is wrong.

I'll sum it up like this (like EBS_Freak has been doing). From the clips I've seen, she walks on stage and moans that her in-ears aren't working. She pulls them out to see if she can hear the track from out front or wedges but either she can't or it is too confusing with echo/acoustics etc. She walks to the front of the stage and tries to listen to the monitors, but doesn't seem to like that either. This doesn't smack to me as someone who has always had it perfect and has never dealt with tech issues before. She was trying.

Whatever your opinions on the professionality of how she dealt with it, something obviously wasn't right. I have done shows for local cabaret acts who have had bigger diva strops than that, but it was usually because something wasn't working, or heaven forbid after an exhausting 11 hour day I'd missed a mute button somewhere in the chain. Not something I'd be proud of, but I'd resolve it and then hold my hands up and apologise afterwards.

On the clip I saw, she did suffer it for a while (more than one song) before she walked off. If that was my crew, I'd have had someone on stage with a spare beltpack or with their ear to the wedges in minutes - I saw no evidence of that.

I'd also say that if her version of events is true, then if she repeatedly said "they're not working" backstage, and her crew or whoever told her "they'll be fine when you get on stage" - then that person/persons needs a good kicking, IMHO.

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='Huge Hands' timestamp='1483694973' post='3209275']
I don't get it. Even the most prepared technical crews can get it wrong, or have failures that happen out of their control. You must know this if, like me you have worked in pro audio. How do you know the wedges were working, to a point where they were useable? I too would always defend my fellow professionals when I can, but to say they are blameless, I think is wrong.

I'll sum it up like this (like EBS_Freak has been doing). From the clips I've seen, she walks on stage and moans that her in-ears aren't working. She pulls them out to see if she can hear the track from out front or wedges but either she can't or it is too confusing with echo/acoustics etc. She walks to the front of the stage and tries to listen to the monitors, but doesn't seem to like that either. This doesn't smack to me as someone who has always had it perfect and has never dealt with tech issues before. She was trying.

Whatever your opinions on the professionality of how she dealt with it, something obviously wasn't right. I have done shows for local cabaret acts who have had bigger diva strops than that, but it was usually because something wasn't working, or heaven forbid after an exhausting 11 hour day I'd missed a mute button somewhere in the chain. Not something I'd be proud of, but I'd resolve it and then hold my hands up and apologise afterwards.

On the clip I saw, she did suffer it for a while (more than one song) before she walked off. If that was my crew, I'd have had someone on stage with a spare beltpack or with their ear to the wedges in minutes - I saw no evidence of that.

I'd also say that if her version of events is true, then if she repeatedly said "they're not working" backstage, and her crew or whoever told her "they'll be fine when you get on stage" - then that person/persons needs a good kicking, IMHO.
[/quote]

That's exactly how I see it too... Mariah's actions seem to be entirely genuine and point to a technical balls up.

I reread the list that Wiggybass posted and a number of things started to ring bells. I'm not having a go at anybody anywhere, just trying to provide a reasoned response to some of the statements that have been made.

RF is not a static thing - just because the airwaves were clean at soundcheck, doesn't mean that they are going to remain clean. The additional lights, TV crews etc... will all have had an impact on the RF throughout the day. Just because the frequencies were booked out to them, doesn't mean that they weren't going be suffering with intermodulation issues when other RF sources came online. With regard to the monitors working and the IEMs working, the sound company can say what they want as they know full well that there is no way of anybody being able to validate this statement. Anybody tach side/onstage who would go against this story, is unlikely to ever be hired again and probably not even allowed to comment due to the the NDA that they apparently signed.

How you react in a problem situation - as huge_hands states, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of reacting going on from the tech team. Standard response is to have a backup IEM pack going onstage to her.

The different mixes... whatever mixes were being sent, that would appear to be a secondary problem - there was clearly something more fundamentally wrong with the transmission, rather than the content.

"They'll be fine when you get on stage" - yeah, because 30mw/100mw (depending upon what system they were using) radio transmissions (e.g. pretty strong) is fussy about front and backstage. If they are using the Shure systems, it may even be as stupid as somebody not re-engaging the RF transmission switch... so the routing is all there... but no radio!

I guess the real truth behind it all will be covered up in favour of making Mariah looking like a diva... or giving her a good kicking because she actually has more talent than most modern pop acts.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1483700419' post='3209327']
I guess the real truth behind it all will be covered up in favour of making Mariah looking like a diva... or giving her a good kicking because she actually has more talent than most modern pop acts.
[/quote]

The real truth could be anything. The fact is, we don't know what it is.