Car insurance for musicians.

[SisterAbdullahX]

Hey,
Car insurance for musicians, where are the best deals? Do I even need it anymore?? Gigs getting less and less each year, down to about 15 functions a year now and maybe a few pubs. Down as "entertainer" as second income (I have a day job) and premium for me and the wife to drive a ten year old Mondeo is around 800 quid! Should be less than half that without the "entertainer" element. I'm now in a kind of negative feedback loop where the gigs pretty much pay for the insurance needed to do the gigs! Tempted to do away with it and take the chance or to pack in altogether!

[PaulWarning]

never even thought about it, I pay just over £200 for a 12 year old Mondeo, why do you need it? it's just a hobby, who's going to know? or am I being naive.

[Muppet]

Tricky one this. Insurance is all about risk ultimately, that's why occupation is considered, as certain occupations are statistically more risky. Is your second job actually a job or more of a hobby (like many of us here, I suspect)? If so, I would not consider it as needing disclosed as a second form of employment.

Insurance is in most cases based on 'good faith'. That is, an insurer will cover you if you have answered everything honestly and truthfully to the best of your knowledge. We can all do things to reduce our premiums to the lowest they possibly can be but ultimately could be caught out in the event of a claim, so false economy.

[JapanAxe]

I insure with Elephant and they were happy to add 'Musician - pubs & clubs' for little or no extra. Don't say 'Musician - rock and pop' though - that bumps it right up!

[JamesBass]

No ones ever asked for my second job, luckily my first job is a teacher so my insurance is low as it is.

[FinnDave]

My insurers were happy to accept that playing music is a hobby for which I receive a contribution towards the costs. No difference to premium.

[T-Bay]

If you think of it with your tax mans head on, cost of fuel, cost of equipment, depreciation of equipment, etc etc then you probably aren't actually making on it with the number you are doing so it is a hobby not a second job. If you rely on it to cover household bills your main wage doesn't then it would be different.

Just be careful that your kit is covered for theft/ damage though (but it usually is on your household insurance anyway).

[steantval]

Why declare it, this is meant for pro's who are considered a bad risk.
Doing a few gigs a year is a hobby it's not an occupation.

[SisterAbdullahX]

[quote name='steantval' timestamp='1483386820' post='3206779']
Why declare it, this is meant for pro's who are considered a bad risk.
Doing a few gigs a year is a hobby it's not an occupation.
[/quote]

Yeah, I kind of feel the same way. Just not sure the law/insurance company would see it that way. That said, I think I won't be declaring it upon my next renewal.

[FinnDave]

I work on the principle that if it's declared and cleared, then there is nothing for them to wriggle out of in the event of a claim.

[PaulWarning]

what would be being claimed? an accident on the way for a drink to the pub, or perhaps a prang in the pub car park, unless you're actually going to claim for stolen gear whilst in the car I can't really see a problem

[FinnDave]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1483391154' post='3206830']
what would be being claimed? an accident on the way for a drink to the pub, or perhaps a prang in the pub car park, unless you're actually going to claim for stolen gear whilst in the car I can't really see a problem
[/quote]

Insurance companies employ teams of people to stick their noses into claimants' business in the hope of finding them engaged in some kind of activity for which they are not insured in order to avoid paying out.

Edited January 2, 2017 by FinnDave

[Grangur]

[quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1483391632' post='3206837']
Insurance companies employ teams of people to stick their noses into claimant's business in the hope of finding them engaged in some kind of activity for which they are not insured in order to avoid paying out.
[/quote]
This is also more true for the cheapest companies too. Small, cheap insurance policies are often false economy.

I'd insure with a good, major company and don't declare it as an occupation. It's a hobby unless you make a real income from it. Get on the phone and discuss it with them. Then confirm it in writing to them.

Edited January 2, 2017 by Grangur

[stingrayPete1977]

I have many hobbies that require driving to and from places with stuff in the car, I'd only declare any that I'd class as a proper income, proper incomes I'd class as anything where a tax return is filed each year.

[T-Bay]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1483393563' post='3206857']
I have many hobbies that require driving to and from places with stuff in the car, I'd only declare any that I'd class as a proper income, proper incomes I'd class as anything where a tax return is filed each year.
[/quote]
When I was seriously into target shooting a few years ago I would regularly travel with £10k of kit in the car. Obviously it was never left in the car but it was specifically covered under the house insurance so it was never mentioned to the car insurers as there was no need. The only time I have ever mentioned a hobby to them was when we were doing a fair bit of black powder shooting as that comes under an explosives licence so I thought it best to mention to them even though the amounts were small enough that the 60litres of fuel is far more of a worry in the event of an accident.

[FinnDave]

The problem is that anyone involved in the entertainment business is seen as high risk. Back in the days when I learnt my daily crust at TV Centre, if any of us had to renew car insurance we would always say we were clerical workers....working in West London...yes, that's right, White City...erm, yes, I do work for the BBC...how much????!!

Mind you, a fair percentage of the people I worked with were banned due to an excess of club hospitality, so I understand their reasoning.

Edited January 2, 2017 by FinnDave

[T-Bay]

But it's not a 'business' if no net income is earned, it's a hobby ;-)

[FinnDave]

[quote name='T-Bay' timestamp='1483394609' post='3206876']
But it's not a 'business' if no net income is earned, it's a hobby ;-)
[/quote]

And that's how I explained to my insurer and so if I have an accident on the way to or from a gig or rehearsal, it's already declared, and therefore covered.

[silverfoxnik]

This is a real bug bear subject for me because of the way musicians have been very unfairly and very poorly treated by the insurance companies over the years!

I remember being on my local Musicians Union committee in North London in the late 80s and at the time, the MU had to negotiate a block deal with General Accident just so your average working musician could get affordable car insurance!

Even now sadly, you still have to be so careful what you say to the main insurance companies and underwriters when applying for car insurance just in case they decide you're too much of a risk - regardless of the fact that you're only playing in local pubs - and they won't insure you. Which IMO, is pretty much a form of discrimination in my book, especially in 2017.

I can still remember some call centre klutz years back telling me his company wouldn't insure me because

'.. you might have Mick Jagger in your car.'

even though I told him at least 20 times I only played in a covers band once or twice a month!

Unbelievable..

[FinnDave]

Yeah, but that Mick Jagger is always blagging lifts off unknown pub musicians. Known for it!

[steantval]

I do find that this is thread is going in too deep regarding this issue.
If your are a full time musician, then it is your occupation and therefore you would be legally obliged to declare it.
If you have a full time day job and playing in bands at the weekends, that has nothing to do with your vehicle insurance, it's a bit like working in an office as your main occupation and doing track days every other weekend - you don't declare yourself as a Racing Driver.

[PaulWarning]

I guess at the end of the day it's all down to an individuals attitude to risk, mines quite high, I don't take insurance out on anything unless I'm forced, i.e. car and home insurance (couldn't afford to rebuild my home if it burnt down), where as some people take insurance and extended warranties out on everything, if you lie awake worrying about it take out the full monty

Edited January 3, 2017 by PaulWarning

[Cousin G]

On 02/01/2017 at 20:23, FinnDave said:

I work on the principle that if it's declared and cleared, then there is nothing for them to wriggle out of in the event of a claim.

I'm getting nowhere. Who provides your motor insurance?

 

[FinnDave]

13 minutes ago, Cousin G said:

I'm getting nowhere. Who provides your motor insurance?

 

Blimey, that's a quote from over five years ago! Anyway, I was then, and still am, with A-Plan insurance, who I think are spread around the country, but their head office is in Witney, just down the road from where I live. My wife happens to work in the local branch, as well.

[Guest]

What if you're not a musician and you have Mick Jagger in your car?  Can I not give the poor old sod a lift home from the pub any more?