Car insurance for musicians.

[ambient]

I’ve never referred to myself as a musician for my car insurance, it bumps the price up too much. 

Edited April 23, 2022 by ambient

[FinnDave]

5 minutes ago, ambient said:

I’ve never referred to myself as a musician for my cat insurance, it bumps the price up too much. 

You might regret that if you need to make  claim on your way to or back from a gig. These days, the onus is on you (me, us) to declare anything that might affect our insurance risk, not on the insurer to ask every relevant question (fact checked by my tame insurance person, aka my wife).

I also used to say as little as possible in order to get the cheapest quote, but these days it isn't worth it. Even you are the most careful and considerate driver out there (pretty unlikely for a musician!) you can never tell what other people might do. If your car got stolen from a pub you can be sure that the insurer will find out why you were there.

I'm not on the insurer's side, I just don't like to see people fall foul of the rules for the sake a few quid more on the policy.

[ambient]

3 hours ago, FinnDave said:

You might regret that if you need to make  claim on your way to or back from a gig. These days, the onus is on you (me, us) to declare anything that might affect our insurance risk, not on the insurer to ask every relevant question (fact checked by my tame insurance person, aka my wife).

I also used to say as little as possible in order to get the cheapest quote, but these days it isn't worth it. Even you are the most careful and considerate driver out there (pretty unlikely for a musician!) you can never tell what other people might do. If your car got stolen from a pub you can be sure that the insurer will find out why you were there.

I'm not on the insurer's side, I just don't like to see people fall foul of the rules for the sake a few quid more on the policy.

I used to say I was a music teacher, which was actually true.

Edited April 4, 2022 by ambient

[Bassfinger]

The Association of British Insurers defines an "occupation" as...

 

"A person's usual or principal work or business"

 

If playing with your mates down at the Goat and Vasectomy meets thet definition then you need to tell your insurers.  If it doesn't, you don't.

 

I can't see why it is difficult.

[Cousin G]

On 04/04/2022 at 16:24, FinnDave said:

Blimey, that's a quote from over five years ago! Anyway, I was then, and still am, with A-Plan insurance, who I think are spread around the country, but their head office is in Witney, just down the road from where I live. My wife happens to work in the local branch, as well.

Thanks very much for the recommendation. I got bonafide cover from A-Plan's Tooting branch. Although not cheap, the policy provices expicit cover in case of any claim.

[FinnDave]

11 minutes ago, Cousin G said:

Thanks very much for the recommendation. I got bonafide cover from A-Plan's Tooting branch. Although not cheap, the policy provices expicit cover in case of any claim.

Thanks, my wife will be delighted to know that! She's been working at the Witney branch for over six years now.

[Kev]

On 04/04/2022 at 19:33, FinnDave said:

These days, the onus is on you (me, us) to declare anything that might affect our insurance risk, not on the insurer to ask every relevant question (fact checked by my tame insurance person, aka my wife).

 

It actually isn't anymore, hasn't been for a few years.  There used to be a requirement to disclose any material fact that may influence an Underwriter decision, but that has now changed to the opposite of what you've said; the onus is on the Insurer now to ask the right question, and if the right question isn't asked, the customer doesn't need to disclose.  Basically means most FCA/FOS complaints go the way of the consumer for non disclosure these days.

 

I don't work in motor insurance, more leisure and household, but unless you class your band as your job, I can't imagine a need to disclose it.  Come to think of it, I cant really think of an incident that may happen that would be unique to a music related venture that would be insured anyway.  Is there an example?

[paul_c2]

On 04/04/2022 at 19:21, ambient said:

I’ve never referred to myself as a musician for my cat insurance, it bumps the price up too much. 

 

When I held pet insurance for my dog, they didn't ask occupation - it was more about breed of dog, KC registration, pre-existing medical conditions, level of cover etc.

[FinnDave]

I can only say what I have said before, my insurers insist that it is necessary to disclose my musical activities as there is no other reason for me to be carry a car load of relatively valuable stuff into some potentially dodgy areas at night. Seeing as my wife works for the insurers in question, it is unlikely that they would make it up. It adds very little, if anything, to the premium, but means they cannot wriggle out of paying up should I suffer a loss.

[Kev]

On an online motor question set, where would you answer what makes up the social domestic and pleasure activities?  Or how else is it disclosed?

[paul_c2]

I just checked on Money Supermarket and they have the question "Besides xxxxxxxxxxxxxx do you have another job?" and if you look at the info box, it paraphrases this as "paid work". On another one (Confused.com) it asks "Do you have another occupation?".

 

I would have thought if you receive money for something, then it would be widely interpreted as "another job" or "another occupation" regardless of if there's associated expenses which make it unprofitable, if you enjoy it or not (some people enjoy their main job!) etc and if you were to answer the question "no" then make a claim surrounding the use of the car during that second job, it would be discovered and treated as an attempt to fraudulently obtain a lower insurance quote.

 

I believe what normally happens is the insurance company recalculate what the premium would have been, then work out the proportion you did pay, then pay out on the claim with that proportion (which wouldn't normally be so bad, if the difference was small). However they are also likely to put an entry onto the Claims and Underwriting Exchange (CUE) and Motor Insurance Anti-Fraud Theft Register (MIAFTR) databases. And they are able to then cancel your policy too - meaning you'd have to declare this on obtaining any subsequent insurance - which WILL bump up your insurance very significantly. And don't forget, anyone could/can claim on your policy and you may be powerless to prevent this, for example if you did have an accident and ended up in hospital, unable to manage the situation, but they had your reg.

[Kev]

5 minutes ago, paul_c2 said:

I just checked on Money Supermarket and they have the question "Besides xxxxxxxxxxxxxx do you have another job?" and if you look at the info box, it paraphrases this as "paid work". On another one (Confused.com) it asks "Do you have another occupation?".

 

I would have thought if you receive money for something, then it would be widely interpreted as "another job" or "another occupation" regardless of if there's associated expenses which make it unprofitable, if you enjoy it or not (some people enjoy their main job!) etc and if you were to answer the question "no" then make a claim surrounding the use of the car during that second job, it would be discovered and treated as an attempt to fraudulently obtain a lower insurance quote.

 

I believe what normally happens is the insurance company recalculate what the premium would have been, then work out the proportion you did pay, then pay out on the claim with that proportion (which wouldn't normally be so bad, if the difference was small). However they are also likely to put an entry onto the Claims and Underwriting Exchange (CUE) and Motor Insurance Anti-Fraud Theft Register (MIAFTR) databases. And they are able to then cancel your policy too - meaning you'd have to declare this on obtaining any subsequent insurance - which WILL bump up your insurance very significantly. And don't forget, anyone could/can claim on your policy and you may be powerless to prevent this, for example if you did have an accident and ended up in hospital, unable to manage the situation, but they had your reg.

If its seen as a non-disclosure then yes average will be applied. 

 

But I'm highly sceptical playing in a band would be deemed an occupation unless you would describe yourself as a semi-professional musician.  Perhaps people in serious function bands dip into this, original bands earning a ticket share or petrol money, not so much.  But it wouldn't be considered a serious omission.  If you're a part time builder on the side, or more obvious an uber drive, totally different.  But being in a band is not too different from being a designated driver on a night out in terms of risk.  In terms of leaving expensive equipment in your car, its not insured by motor anyway, so claims directly associated with that are minimal.

 

 

[paul_c2]

If you get money for it, regularly, its - by definition - semi-professional and a job/occupation. If you didn't get paid, then sure its amateur and safely in "hobby" territory.

 

It would depend on the type of band and gigs you did, this kind of thing has come up before where people assume things without asking, and in fact there's plenty of different variations on basschat. I suspect those who know they're semi-pro, would know themselves if they ought to declare it or not on their insurance.

[Burns-bass]

17 hours ago, paul_c2 said:

If you get money for it, regularly, its - by definition - semi-professional and a job/occupation. If you didn't get paid, then sure its amateur and safely in "hobby" territory.

 

It would depend on the type of band and gigs you did, this kind of thing has come up before where people assume things without asking, and in fact there's plenty of different variations on basschat. I suspect those who know they're semi-pro, would know themselves if they ought to declare it or not on their insurance.

If you’re a self employed musician it’s highly likely you’ll fall under the trading allowance threshold. If you do declare yourself as a musician on insurance, you can claim back a proportion of that as an expense.

 

Personally, I’ve never declared to my car insurer that I play music, in the same way I don’t tell them that im a serious cyclist, love running or am a stone overweight, because it’s nkt relevant.
 

https://www.litrg.org.uk/latest-news/news/211202-are-you-using-trading-allowance-correctly

 

 

[T-Bay]

19 hours ago, Kev said:

It actually isn't anymore, hasn't been for a few years.  There used to be a requirement to disclose any material fact that may influence an Underwriter decision, but that has now changed to the opposite of what you've said; the onus is on the Insurer now to ask the right question, and if the right question isn't asked, the customer doesn't need to disclose.  Basically means most FCA/FOS complaints go the way of the consumer for non disclosure these days.

 

I don't work in motor insurance, more leisure and household, but unless you class your band as your job, I can't imagine a need to disclose it.  Come to think of it, I cant really think of an incident that may happen that would be unique to a music related venture that would be insured anyway.  Is there an example?

Whiplash claim from Trace Elliot combo not being secured when the driver braked hard?

 

Come to think of it, that would be funeral costs, not whiplash claim………

[paul_5]

1 hour ago, T-Bay said:

Whiplash claim from Trace Elliot combo not being secured when the driver braked hard?

 

Come to think of it, that would be funeral costs, not whiplash claim………

You’d have to be going at a fair rate of knots to move a TE combo!