fleabag Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) " Looking for experienced singist. Must be African American lesbian catholic with one leg aged between 29-30 - must love dogs " "PS must be left handed" Edited February 14, 2017 by fleabag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) How many over forty year olds are in a pop band that started BEFORE they were forty? I don't want to be prancing around trying to make it any more and I don't want to be the guy holding back a group of twenty somethings either. There are people here in original bands that are getting on a bit but how many of them built those followings up when they were younger and have just kept the same audience who are now mostly older too? There's nothing wrong with that, it's no easy task but they're unlikely to need to worry about a bunch of teenagers poaching the 50 year old bass player playing songs that sound old even of they are not. Edited February 14, 2017 by stingrayPete1977 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyJohnson Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 [quote name='spectoremg' timestamp='1483460903' post='3207312'] I've always been slightly uncomfortable about the MOBO awards. Is there a MOWO awards? [/quote] I've always felt the same thing. I've been mulling this question over for about half hour now and virtually every bullet point I can think of makes me sound like a fanatical Nazi, which I'm not, by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikel Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 [quote name='Earbrass' timestamp='1487091758' post='3236979'] Is that inches tall or stones in weight? From an ad on Bandmix: [b][i][color=#101010]I'm looking for other members who are preferably no older than 30 (as im 22), who have similar taste musically and who are pretty openminded.[/color][/i][/b] [i][color=#101010] [/color][/i][i][color=#101010] [/color][/i] [/quote] I have no problem with that one, or any that mentions an age range. If we are doing it for fun, as most of us are probably semi pro, I think its works better if there is not a 40 year gap in the ages of band members. It can work fine musically but on the social side it can be difficult as interests outside music will probably be poles apart. Nothing to do with being a bigot or closed minded, just sensible. I mean, I am 65 but I am very fit and would have no problem keeping up with a bunch of 20 year olds, but what the hell would we talk about after rehearsals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyJohnson Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 [quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1483736189' post='3209779'] I know. Thing is, we had the whole thing structured to underline our disdain for misogyny, hatred and division. Four of us, OK? * Two whites, one black, one from mid-east. * One gay, one straight, one bi-sexual, one straight-edge celibate * A Christian, a Jew , a Muslim and an atheist who'd previously been a pantheist which was a bit of a jolt for him, having to go straight through monotheism without stopping. * A vegan, a vegetarian, a fruitarian and a carnivore who spurned vegetables. It would have been a Blue Mink-styled 'Melting Pot' of hope for the 21st century if a bunch of fascist snowflakes hadn't ruined everything. [/quote] I need this in a Venn diagram form for it to make any sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikel Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 [quote name='NancyJohnson' timestamp='1487146361' post='3237395'] I've always felt the same thing. I've been mulling this question over for about half hour now and virtually every bullet point I can think of makes me sound like a fanatical Nazi, which I'm not, by the way. [/quote] Aye, If you think about it almost all popular music is MOBO. The origins of popular music are Blues, Soul and Jazz to a greater or lesser extent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlloyd Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 [quote name='NancyJohnson' timestamp='1487146361' post='3237395'] I've always felt the same thing. I've been mulling this question over for about half hour now and virtually every bullet point I can think of makes me sound like a fanatical Nazi, which I'm not, by the way. [/quote] There are lots of them. http://www.gramophone.co.uk/awards/2016 http://awards.classical-music.com/ http://www.celticmusicradio.net/scotstrad2016/ http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00yrkrj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyJohnson Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 (edited) [quote name='dlloyd' timestamp='1487156537' post='3237545'] There are lots of them. [url="http://www.gramophone.co.uk/awards/2016"]http://www.gramophon....uk/awards/2016[/url] [url="http://awards.classical-music.com/"]http://awards.classical-music.com/[/url] [url="http://www.celticmusicradio.net/scotstrad2016/"]http://www.celticmus.../scotstrad2016/[/url] [url="http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00yrkrj"]http://www.bbc.co.uk...rammes/b00yrkrj[/url] [/quote] I think my stance here is that we live in a country where there's this expectation that we aren't supposed to see or discriminate against people of colour, but we are drawn into this thing of colour exclusivity. I suppose what I'm trying to say is that, with some naivety here, if there wasn't so much (media) attention focussed on a colour agenda - or specifically the word 'black' - then you would live in hope that the whole issue of racism would disappear. I see people like Reginald D. Hunter on TV and we have a running gag in our house to see how long it will be before he says he's black. 'Yes, mate. We can see that.' Just in closing, we have some friends who about fifteen years ago became darlings of the BBC as the go-to family for Chinese stuff (it's a wonder Auntie hasn't approached them for one of those [i]Back In Time For Dinner[/i] shows). My mate's wife (Hong Kong born, raised in the east end of Landaan), would regularly describe herself as 2nd generation Chinese and on a couple of occasions as a banana (yellow on the outside, white on the inside). The Beeb man asked to refrain from using the expression, which made her use it more. I asked her once why she felt the Chinese contingent were largely ignored by the media, to which she pretty much said, [i]'Because we keep ourselves to ourselves, we don't push an agenda onto anyone else and aside from our eyes, we're pretty much white, ain't we?'[/i] Edited February 15, 2017 by NancyJohnson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daz39 Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 Every other awards are not exclusively MOBO awards - I think that's the best way to put it. Privilege blinds us to the discrimination that occurs - If you look back at any awards across any media (film, tv, music etc.) that does not specifically focus on one group by colour, gender, race or religion - it has overwhelmingly favoured white, middle-class, western winners. Most of the judges have been from this group, most of the air/screentime has favoured this, and thus it favours these winners. If someone looks at the MOBOs and thinks 'where did all this music come from?' then that's the result of all of the above. It's always been there, but it has to meet higher expectations to compete. It's partly why Adele was complaining that Beyoncé ought to have won the Best Album Grammy (partly self-deprecating modesty too I imagine). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikel Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 [quote name='Daz39' timestamp='1487168083' post='3237705'] Every other awards are not exclusively MOBO awards - I think that's the best way to put it. Privilege blinds us to the discrimination that occurs -[b] If you look back at any awards across any media (film, tv, music etc.) that does not specifically focus on one group by colour, gender, race or religion - it has overwhelmingly favoured white, middle-class, western winners. Most of the judges have been from this group, most of the air/screentime has favoured this, and thus it favours these winners.[/b] If someone looks at the MOBOs and thinks 'where did all this music come from?' then that's the result of all of the above. It's always been there, but it has to meet higher expectations to compete. It's partly why Adele was complaining that Beyoncé ought to have won the Best Album Grammy (partly self-deprecating modesty too I imagine). [/quote] I have no time for bigots, but looking at your first comments.... If the awards are in Britain its hardly surprising as the country is mainly white, middle class, so the fact most of the judges and winners are the same is not a shock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojo Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 [quote name='fleabag' timestamp='1487094458' post='3237024'] " Looking for experienced singist. Must be African American lesbian catholic with one leg aged between 29-30 - must love dogs " "PS must be left handed" [/quote] Bugger , I've really tried to like dogs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleabag Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 No dogs ? Then no gig. Move along folks - nothing to see here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 [quote name='mikel' timestamp='1487188828' post='3237951'] I have no time for bigots, but looking at your first comments.... If the awards are in Britain its hardly surprising as the country is mainly white, middle class, so the fact most of the judges and winners are the same is not a shock. [/quote] You would expect that 3% would be represented though. Positive discrimination is only there to try and redress the balance. Look at the London Marathon. Their stated aim is to have a 50:50 split of men and women. In order to do this they lower the time requirements for women disportianately. Look at any other marathon and it's full of men in their mid 40s women are very under represented. Why is this a problem? Why are women under represented? Is it because they're not interested in running? No. It's because they're interested in running but when they turn up to marathons it's an elitist activity and society says women are not as good as men. There was no women running London until 1981 and no women's marathon in the olympics until 1984! Women running marathons? How ridiculous. Compare this to how blacks were treated in the US, and are even now. It's part of society's institutionally ingrained attitudes. It's so deep that we all don't see it and posts like yours just illustrate that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daz39 Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Yes. Exactly, Tim R. What the majority see as 'normal' is actually an oppressive state for minorities. I admit I am nearly as privileged as it gets in the western world: I'm white, male, middle class, degree-educated, straight, 40, without major disability/impairment. I even speak fairly accentless English. Any trouble I have finding work or getting ahead is entirely down to my competence. Society raised me to believe I was 'normal' and 'average' - and so blind to the extra few steps I am automatically ahead of people not like me. It's been shown countless times: sending out near-identical CVs with names from different cultures, changing gender or age when asking opinions of suitability for something. Female authors have been using initials instead of their first name for decades. It's quite staggering when you stop to think about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HengistPod Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Up here in the frozen wilderness, we can't be picky. If anything vaguely human actually turns up for the audition, they have an 80% chance of getting the job before they play/sing a note. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LayDownThaFunk Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Why should white people have to apologise for being white people? I don't get it and never will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daz39 Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 It's not that most white people ought to apologise, but rather be more aware of their privilege and be less entitled about it. As an example: complaining about MOBO awards needing to exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 [quote name='Daz39' timestamp='1487250473' post='3238359'] It's not that most white people ought to apologise, but rather be more aware of their privilege and be less entitled about it. As an example: complaining about MOBO awards needing to exist. [/quote] The only thing I have against it is it does seem to have gone the other way and risks being sycophantic. "Oh, I feel really bad about the way black people are treated. You all have such a hard time and are all so repressed." Certain elements of black community (and extreme feminist women) play on this and turn it around for a completely different agenda. Yes, it's what the MOBOs are for and why it exsists and shouldn't be an opportunity to grind an axe, just a celebration of culture. Unfortunately the media have yet another agenda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daz39 Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 The media are everyone's worst enemy, to be fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 [quote name='Daz39' timestamp='1487251015' post='3238367'] The media are everyone's worst enemy, to be fair. [/quote] Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikel Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 (edited) [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1487238424' post='3238218'] [b]You would expect that 3% would be represented though.[/b] Positive discrimination is only there to try and redress the balance. Look at the London Marathon. Their stated aim is to have a 50:50 split of men and women. In order to do this they lower the time requirements for women disportianately. Look at any other marathon and it's full of men in their mid 40s women are very under represented. Why is this a problem? Why are women under represented? Is it because they're not interested in running? No. It's because they're interested in running but when they turn up to marathons it's an elitist activity and society says women are not as good as men. There was no women running London until 1981 and no women's marathon in the olympics until 1984! Women running marathons? How ridiculous. Compare this to how blacks were treated in the US, and are even now. It's part of society's institutionally ingrained attitudes. It's so deep that we all don't see it and posts like yours just illustrate that. [/quote] Why? There are lots of ethnic minorities in Britain, does every activity have to look at all the percentages and make sure every one is represented in everything, regardless of weather they want to be? Positive discrimination is still discrimination. It has nothing to do with my "Ingrained attitude" All popular music is MOBO, I have already pointed that out. Claiming the British have the same racial leanings as the most Redneck section of the US Southern States is also very wide of the mark. We are talking music here and from what I can see no one has any problem with black or ethnic musicians. I lived in rural France for two years and did not expect the populace to bend over backwards and modify there customs and lifestyle to accommodate me, I stood out because I was English, even amongst the black and ethnic minority French. Its peoples differences that make them interesting, imagine how boring the world would be if we all looked and spoke the same. If someone wants to make music, or run a marathon or swim the Atlantic, its there choice and there desire that will get them there, regardless of ethnicity or gender. Take Stevie Wonder. Not just black, but blind from birth. Did he become one of the most influential and best selling musicians of the late 20th century because of positive discrimination? No, he did it because he was highly talented and he had the desire and drive to get to the very top. Was he a great blind,black musician/ songwriter? No, he was a great musician/songwriter, period. Edited February 16, 2017 by mikel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDaddy Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Period? This is Blighty old boy. I think you mean 'full stop' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 [quote name='mikel' timestamp='1487255890' post='3238417'] Positive discrimination is still discrimination [/quote] I have no idea what it's like to grow up black in Britain. What is obvious is that even today, after years of progress, black people are still disadvantaged in our society because of the colour of their skin. In an effort to keep the progress going in the hope of one day achieving equality, sometimes we implement what's known as "positive discrimination". If the MOBO awards are an example of positive discrimination (I'm pretty sure white people playing Music Of Black Origin can be nominated?) then good!! Hopefully they'll play a small part in the progress we need Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12stringbassist Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 (edited) Bands NEED to be able to advertise for the person they actually want. They should not have to audition someone they are not interested in. If they don't want a man or woman in their particular band, that doesn't bother me. If they don't want a black person or a woman in their serious Beatles tribute band (for example), I don't have a problem with that. Nor if they don't want a bloke with a bushy beard in a Bangles tribute band. I'm 58 and have played in aband recently with a 20 year old. It was disaster for me, as he wasn't really connected to the music we were playing and was just lazy and immature about learning any songs he didn't have an interest in and so he played stiffly and 'by numbers'. If it had been my choice we would have got a better, older player. In an advert, if they state an age range that they want, I find it helps. Once you get to the level of 'everyday, general bands', I think the wording of the advert - if done properly - should be enough to give people a clue as to whether they would fit in. It doesn't have to be done in a bigoted way. Edited February 16, 2017 by 12stringbassist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyJohnson Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 [quote name='12stringbassist' timestamp='1487259767' post='3238456'] If they don't want a black person or a woman in their serious Beatles tribute band (for example), I don't have a problem with that. [/quote] What about a Rutles tribute band? I'll get my coat... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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