Bridge issue - opinions please

[Musashimonkey]

Hi all. I'm looking for some opinions please.

I've just purchased a new Sandberg bass from a U.K. Bass shop. It's great in every way. However the bridge saddle for the G-string is already fully grounded out at its lowest setting and it can't be adjusted any lower. The bass had additional costs due to a Plek fret dress; I feel that I can't really access that upgrade without a neck shim, which after spending this kind of money, and as the bass is new, I don't think is right.

I'm waiting to hear back from Sandberg, and the shop are currently helping with the issue, but I'm wondering what people's thoughts are and if you've had any similar issues?

I always thought a bridge should be capable of lowering the strings completely onto the fretboard to give the user the full range of action options.

[Grangur]

What if you need to have the frets leveled and dressed again in the future? You'll need the bridge even lower.

I wouldn't be happy.

[Musashimonkey]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1483603468' post='3208527']
What if you need to have the frets leveled and dressed again in the future? You'll need the bridge even lower.

I wouldn't be happy.
[/quote]
Yep, very good point I hadn't thought of. Thank you.

[ahpook]

[quote name='Musashimonkey' timestamp='1483603763' post='3208528']
Yep, very good point I hadn't thought of. Thank you.
[/quote]

He's a clever chap that Grangur...

(I hadn't thought of that either !)

Edited January 5, 2017 by ahpook

[GreeneKing]

How is the neck relief? That could be exacerbating your problem.

[Grangur]

The only solution I can think of is shim the neck or rout a cavity for the bridge.

I don't like either of these solutions. If the ever want to change the bridge the rout will be the wrong shape and, as the OP says, it's wrong having a shim in a bass of this value.

I'd return it to them.

[Musashimonkey]

The neck relief is spot on, it was already very good and just a smidge off straight. Fixing first and 16th fret spacing is about .012 (0.3mm) over the 8th fret = ideal in my book.

Edited January 5, 2017 by Musashimonkey

[Musashimonkey]

Grangur - I think you're right, those were the only two options I could think of. Far from ideal.

Thanks for all the support guys.

[tom1946]

Dermand a new bass that has no problems, I certainly wouldn't accept a repair on a new bass costing what they do.

[Luulox]

I too would be sending it back, it leaves you no room for future changes. I don't know a lot about bridges but it may even make swapping to different string gauges difficult or impossible?

[karlfer]

Slightly off topic Steve, but I thought pretty much all Sandbergs (from Electra up, I think) came with Plek done at factory and included in price of new bass?
I hope the dealer hasn't charged extra for that/

If unhappy I would certainly be asking replace/refund, but I'd be VERY nice about it as this issue is a difficult one.
Especially if it's playable and they do not stipulate parameters for "action" or saddle movement.

Good luck and be nice with them all for as long as you can be .

Edited January 5, 2017 by karlfer

[No lust in Jazz]

I'm not sure that this is a problem with this bass or a fundamental design problem. One would expect that the string would be flat on the frets with the bridge in its lowest position.

Sorry I don't have answers

[Paulhauser]

I had this issue once with a different brand's bass. I took the saddle out and have a luthier grind about 2mm off from the lower side of the saddle. The bass has monorail bridge so routing of the wood was more difficult than this and worked like a charm and I'm happy ever since.

The bass was bought used, I was not super happy that it had to be done, but I wanted low action and there was no other way.
If I'd be buying a new bass and not being able to lower the string as much as I want it would be quite an issue for me.

[Paulhauser]

[quote name='No lust in Jazz' timestamp='1483611146' post='3208610']
I'm not sure that this is a problem with this bass or a fundamental design problem. One would expect that the string would be flat on the frets with the bridge in its lowest position.
[/quote]

That's my thinking, too.

[Musashimonkey]

Thanks for all the advice guys. Much appreciated. I think I'll head for a refund. Distance selling regs are on my side too, so shouldn't be an issue.

The bass was and some still are advertised as the Plek dress costing an additional £189...! But I think you're right Karl... looks like it comes as standard... Shocking!

[karlfer]

Good luck Steve, hope they aren't guilty of mis-selling.

Again, slightly off topic, but I KNOW somebody makes bridge saddles that have a flat bottom, rather than just being cylindrical.
I've got a feeling it was on one of the Yam Attitude Sheehan models.
Might do a bit of research over the weekend,

BUT..........

if anybody knows

[Ghost_Bass]

You shouldn't have this problem with a Sandberg, they have great QC but some lemons may get through. Hopefully they have even better CS so the best thing you should do before messing with the bass and voiding your waranty is to get in touch with them (facebook or use the contact on the site) and they'll be happy to help you. They may also clear things about the store charging you for the plek service and would apreciate the information.

[No lust in Jazz]

^ Sandberg saddles are flat.

The bridge is a design that I like and thought has gone into it, again I don't think that this issue* will be unique to this guitar.

*May not be an issue to others.

[Ghost_Bass]

In adition, i bought a new Sandberg some time ago, standard bridge, i could lower the saddles enough to sit the strings on the frets. Never should have sold it...

[mcnach]

If it's new from a shop, I'd get them to fix it. Unless I really liked the bass. All it likely needs is a tiny tiny shim. I notice some here think that's a problem, but I disagree. It's a very effective and common way to fine tune the neck angle on mass-produced bolt-on neck instruments. Many include a shim from factory, which you only find out when you remove the neck, and I'm not talking about budget instruments exactly.

So... if that were my bass and all I didn't like was that, I'd keep it and address it myself. You can get the shop to take care of it but either you'll have to wait, or you'll have to wait AND receive a new instrument which you may like more or less than this one you have in your hands: so if I really like it, I'd keep it... and depending on how impatient I feel I'd either do it myself or talk the shop into sorting it out.

[Grangur]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1483623289' post='3208741']
If it's new from a shop, I'd get them to fix it. Unless I really liked the bass. All it likely needs is a tiny tiny shim. I notice some here think that's a problem, but I disagree. It's a very effective and common way to fine tune the neck angle on mass-produced bolt-on neck instruments. Many include a shim from factory, which you only find out when you remove the neck, and I'm not talking about budget instruments exactly.

So... if that were my bass and all I didn't like was that, I'd keep it and address it myself. You can get the shop to take care of it but either you'll have to wait, or you'll have to wait AND receive a new instrument which you may like more or less than this one you have in your hands: so if I really like it, I'd keep it... and depending on how impatient I feel I'd either do it myself or talk the shop into sorting it out.
[/quote]
The point against a shim is that it's simply a bodge to make up for poor manufacturing standards. If you pay for good standards you should get good standards. Other makers manage to do it.

[Marc S]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1483606163' post='3208550']
The only solution I can think of is shim the neck or rout a cavity for the bridge.

I don't like either of these solutions. If the ever want to change the bridge the rout will be the wrong shape and, as the OP says, it's wrong having a shim in a bass of this value.

I'd return it to them.
[/quote]

Yes, spot on Grangur
Send it back. As Karlfer says - be nice to them for as long as you need to
I'm sure they'll sort it for you and exchange for another bass
Good luck

[mcnach]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1483624042' post='3208752']
The point against a shim is that it's simply a bodge to make up for poor manufacturing standards. If you pay for good standards you should get good standards. Other makers manage to do it.
[/quote]

You'd be surprised... even Warwick used them

As for it being a bodge... we'll have to disagree. It may not seem that elegant at first sight, but it's highly effective with no drawbacks. Yes, you may argue that theoretically the contact neck/body is reduced etc etc. But I'm only interested in what works or doesn't work *in use*. And shims work. No question about it.

edit: but then I also liked the micro-tilt mechanism on 3-bolt fenders (and some 4-bolt too, as my old Strat has that). It gave me all the adjustability I wanted and I never saw any problem -as long as the neck pocket is tight.

Edited January 5, 2017 by mcnach

[BigRedX]

IMO shims are fine if you are making up a bitsa, or want to do something radical with the angle between the body and the neck for playing comfort, but on a brand new instrument that should have been made with modern manufacturing tolerances it's just a nasty bodge.

Besides I would think that changing the angle between the neck and the body would negate the effectiveness of the plek setup.

I'd send the bass back and get another one that has been made properly.

[Manton Customs]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1483624770' post='3208767']
You'd be surprised... even Warwick used them

As for it being a bodge... we'll have to disagree. It may not seem that elegant at first sight, but it's highly effective with no drawbacks. Yes, you may argue that theoretically the contact neck/body is reduced etc etc. But I'm only interested in what works or doesn't work *in use*. And shims work. No question about it.

[/quote]

Bodge might be a strong term, but nobody builds a bass from the ground up to incorporate a shim. If you find a shim in pocket straight from the factory, it's simply because they make mistakes too. It obviously makes sense from a manufacturing point of view to simply add a shim when the alternatives would be hard work.

There's nothing wrong with a shim if necessary on a used bass which has been around the block, but on a new bass I'd find it unacceptable. Once more it'll most likely get worse over time as the pocket typically pulls up at the headstock end over the years. This reduces neck angle and increases the problem. That's one of the reasons why so many old instruments wind up needing shims.

If you really wanted to keep the bass you could sand/mill the angle into the neck pocket or neck heel. That's (one of) the correct fix (es) if you were building from scratch, but obviously not wise in this case when you can just send it back!

Edited January 5, 2017 by Manton Customs