Annoying Vibration- P Bass Copy

[Dan_Q]

Hi All,

This is a long shot- i've done searches and can't find anything, so if this has been covered before I apologise in advance.

My first bass is an Encore P. I know its not exactly the most desirable of intruments- but it has served me well, think I've had it over 12 years, and was at least second hand when I got it. Could even be an 80's one but i've no way of telling. I've never spent anything (except for time!) on it.

It was purely for home use until not long ago, and I took it to a Jam. Prob used the bass for about 1 1/2 hours solid, biggest workout in years. On return, I noticed it had developed a vibration when notes were played on the G string, sweet spot (most vibration) was fret five. Move a few frets down or up, and it disappeared. Sounded like it was coming from under the scratchplate near the neck joint, but as we all know there is nothing on a P under there! At the time it was not coming through the amp. The pots had a couple of dead spots too and plenty of crackle.

Time to apply some TLC. So I polished the frets (they were DISGUSTING I ought to be ashamed- infact I’ve never had frets that bad, even 20 years of crud on my MIJ strat wasn’t as bad as this) cleaned the fretboard, removed the bridge and took the guard off etc to lube the crackly / nearly dead pots. Cleaned any mess away and gave the whole thing a wipe over.

When it all went back together all went well but I did notice a few of the screws wouldn’t tighten- but- the dead spots and crackle was far better (useable) than before and the vibration completely disappeared. Back in business. Or so I thought.

I haven’t played it (certainly not hard) that much since, but I did an hour or so sesh on it at home a week or two ago, and the vibration came back, and I'm not sure if its in my mind but I'm sure i can hear something coming through the amp now too even at bedroom levels.

l plan to spend more time on it (hopefully Saturday if all goes to plan) soon, so i'll prob release the string tension, nip up EVERYTHING and cocktail stick fix (not done this in years but will give it a try) anything that wont tighten, and pop it all back together again. Short of a re-string (perhaps more than the bass is worth?) i'm out of ideas, and it's not worth investing anything in so i'll prob retire it.

Does anyone have any ideas? Anyone come across similar before? Please correct my plan if I'm going about it all wrong, and if anyone has any ideas of what else I can check or look out for i'd appreciate it. I'm not experianced much on playing with basses. One thing to note that I haven't mentioned is that the nut has broken off south of the G string, but there is enough groove left to hold it in place, and it was like that when I bought it, and hasn't been an issue at any point.

Thanks in advance!

[MoonBassAlpha]

Could be a loose truss rod. Try muting the strings and rapping with your knuckle on the back of the neck and see if you can hear (that sounds a bit wrong!) it vibrating. If loose, try just takin up the slack a bit. Will probably take a metric hex key.

[Dan_Q]

[quote name='MoonBassAlpha' timestamp='1483659422' post='3209187']
Could be a loose truss rod. Try muting the strings and rapping with your knuckle on the back of the neck and see if you can hear (that sounds a bit wrong!) it vibrating. If loose, try just takin up the slack a bit. Will probably take a metric hex key.
[/quote]

Excellent idea- i'll give that a try, many thanks for the response

[MoonBassAlpha]

No worries, do let us know how you get on though, it all adds to the wealth of knowledge that is the Basschat repair and technical section!

[SubsonicSimpleton]

Check the machineheads and string retainer by playing the offending notes and then touching the various parts of the tuners front and back of the headstock - very common for worn or loose parts to vibrate in sympathy, especially on instruments with old cheap hardware.

[Dan_Q]

[quote name='SubsonicSimpleton' timestamp='1483792554' post='3210129']
Check the machineheads and string retainer by playing the offending notes and then touching the various parts of the tuners front and back of the headstock - very common for worn or loose parts to vibrate in sympathy, especially on instruments with old cheap hardware.
[/quote]
Nice one yep thanks for the reply, I saw this before starting and have given it a go. Was probably only a half arsed attempt last time! Nothing serious found but a few of the machine head screws had slackened, very good point about old & cheap.......

[quote name='MoonBassAlpha' timestamp='1483736792' post='3209789']
No worries, do let us know how you get on though, it all adds to the wealth of knowledge that is the Basschat repair and technical section!
[/quote]
No problem- and the news is, it looks like you were right 👍
I've just had it apart- first slackened the strings and and the trussrod was definitely rattling inside. Unfortunately tightening only reduces it, the noise couldn't be eliminated so I assume something is slack inside- but tightening certainly helped it. I've had to shim the neck and reset the action to compensate, it plays ok but the rattle is still there. I think it may be near to the end for the old girl!

Thanks for the help guys I really appreciate it. It's copable for practice now, but I think it's time to stop flogging a dead horse and either buy a case for my other bass and use that for jamming, or just replace this one with a Mexican P bass or something. Sad, but excited for a new purchase in the coming months. 👍

[MoonBassAlpha]

Before ditching it, check that isn't a DiMarzio pickup in it. They're worth a few Bob, and sound pretty good!

[Grangur]

[quote name='MoonBassAlpha' timestamp='1483837418' post='3210588']
Before ditching it, check that isn't a DiMarzio pickup in it. They're worth a few Bob, and sound pretty good!
[/quote]
I had an Encore of this vintage. I don't think the pups are DiMarzio. Don't DiMarzio have adjustment to the pole pieces? They're not bad sounding pups, regrettably the sale value probably isn't a lot though.

[Dan_Q]

Cheers for the info guys, the pickup doesn't have adjustable pole pieces.
Does anyone know if a squier or fender neck would fit? I'm not at all familiar with bass parts-castering! 🤔
Could be an option to consider.

[3below]

If the truss is still rattling there is a possible fix. It (from memory) is something along lines of remove 9th fret marker dot. Drill small hole that reaches truss rod. Inject runny PVA into the hole. Something like this [url="http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Luthier/Technique/Setup/BuzzDiagnosis/TrussRod/trussrod.html"]http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Luthier/Technique/Setup/BuzzDiagnosis/TrussRod/trussrod.html[/url]

[Grangur]

[quote name='Dan_Q' timestamp='1483897083' post='3210950']
Cheers for the info guys, the pickup doesn't have adjustable pole pieces.
Does anyone know if a squier or fender neck would fit? I'm not at all familiar with bass parts-castering! 🤔
Could be an option to consider.
[/quote]

Try measuring the width of the pocket. Maybe some has, or knows of a neck that would fit.

[Dan_Q]

[quote name='3below' timestamp='1483900450' post='3210985']
If the truss is still rattling there is a possible fix. It (from memory) is something along lines of remove 9th fret marker dot. Drill small hole that reaches truss rod. Inject runny PVA into the hole. Something like this [url="http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Luthier/Technique/Setup/BuzzDiagnosis/TrussRod/trussrod.html"]http://www.frets.com...d/trussrod.html[/url]
[/quote]

Thanks man, i'll have a good read of that if i decide to put more time into it- nice one

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1483902414' post='3211004']
Try measuring the width of the pocket. Maybe some has, or knows of a neck that would fit.
[/quote]

Aye good place to start, cheers its prob not worth putting the time and effort in, but i still play my first guitar often enough and that doesn't have its original neck anymore.

[rushbo]

I put a bitsa bass together using an Encore body and it's lovely. If you're feeling adventurous, keep an eye out for a cheapo Squier or Harley Benton neck...they should drop in with the minimum of fuss.

[Dan_Q]

excellent, cheers rushbo i've decided that its time for a replacement bass. However i dont like things hanging around idle, so i may well either have a go at the glue repair one day or whack a good old squier neck on there, so if i fancy a play on it at any point in the future I can do cheers

[Grangur]

Before you start buying necks and such, it's worth remembering that the re-sale value of the bass will probably be about £50. You could do better by simply selling the body on and let someone else have the pleasure. Or you might want to keep it. But thats up to you.

I have a neck with a 62mm end if you're interested. PM me if interested.

[Dan_Q]

Yeah I understand it has no value- don't ever plan to sell it 😉
I'll give you a shout if I decide to do a re-neck, nice one 😀

[Twincam]

Have you tried changing the strings?
Its unlikely to be the truss rod when playing a g string in one spot but not impossible. And if it is you could maybe give it a tighten.
And because it just started then some times an old or even a new string after a certain amount of playing can develop a rattle that is noticeable on a certain note. The noise sounds like its coming from anywhere but the string. Often the string is just fatigued internally or at the kink on the bridge. You taken the string on and off it got better which leads me to believe it could just be down to the string.
So you could try a new set of strings and a good setup.

[Dan_Q]

[quote name='Twincam' timestamp='1484483226' post='3215729']
Have you tried changing the strings?
Its unlikely to be the truss rod when playing a g string in one spot but not impossible. And if it is you could maybe give it a tighten.
And because it just started then some times an old or even a new string after a certain amount of playing can develop a rattle that is noticeable on a certain note. The noise sounds like its coming from anywhere but the string. Often the string is just fatigued internally or at the kink on the bridge. You taken the string on and off it got better which leads me to believe it could just be down to the string.
So you could try a new set of strings and a good setup.
[/quote]

I'll hold my hands up- nope, I havent.

The "epicentre" of the vibration was at fret 5 on the G, it could be heard on other notes going away from fret 5. Tightening the rod did make it a little better, but didn't eliminate it altogether. Tapping the neck on its back (with the neck removed from the body with no string tension) you can hear something rattling inside- very similar to when you crack the innards of a snooker cue, if you've ever experienced that!

But you're quite right, it could well be the strings. I've even lost track of how long they've been on. Thanks for the idea, if i ever decide to put any more time or money into it, this is certainly worth a try cheers

[Norris]

It sounds like your truss rod is loose if it's rattling. Does the nut turn freely when not under string tension? If so tighten the truss nut until you start getting some resistance.

Standard Fender style (single acting) truss rods sit in a curved channel. As you tighten the nut the rod tries to straighten, pushing against the curved channel and therefore putting back bow on the neck. If the rod is too loose it won't push against the curve at all, and will rattle

You don't need to put so much tension in as to make the neck back bow, just enough to stop the rod from rattling

Edited January 16, 2017 by Norris

[Dan_Q]

[quote name='Norris' timestamp='1484575579' post='3216422']
It sounds like your truss rod is loose if it's rattling. Does the nut turn freely when not under string tension? If so tighten the truss nut until you start getting some resistance.

Standard Fender style (single acting) truss rods sit in a curved channel. As you tighten the nut the rod tries to straighten, pushing against the curved channel and therefore putting back bow on the neck. If the rod is too loose it won't push against the curve at all, and will rattle

You don't need to put so much tension in as to make the neck back bow, just enough to stop the rod from rattling
[/quote]

yeah i've already checked that as advised earlier in the thread, unfortunately it only reduced the rattle not eliminate it. Thanks for the response

[quote name='Dan_Q' timestamp='1483803444' post='3210246']
I've just had it apart- first slackened the strings and and the trussrod was definitely rattling inside. Unfortunately tightening only reduces it, the noise couldn't be eliminated so I assume something is slack inside- but tightening certainly helped it. I've had to shim the neck and reset the action to compensate, it plays ok but the rattle is still there. I think it may be near to the end for the old girl!
[/quote]

Thanks for help guys, but this bass is now due to be put back home where i play least frequently. I have a case coming for my other bass which will take over the duties of the encore (i practice more at the girlfriends and more chance of going for a Jam from there), and in the meantime I may look for a squier or fender P to replace the encore eventually. Of course, I'm using this as an excuse to GAS my head off!

Edited January 16, 2017 by Dan_Q