Problems with intonation setting on Fender Precision

[Iacopo San]

Hi guys, I have some problems setting up the intonation on my Fender Precision Classic '50 Made in Mexico.
I changed strings last week and I wanted to do a general set up today, I set the action and I wanted to change the intonation but the two lower strings seem to be sharp and moving the saddles doesn't change much. I moved the saddles all the way closer to the pick ups but the intonation at the 12th fret is still sharp.

Any suggestions why this could be and what I coudl do to rectify this? I read somewhere that if setting up the bridge isn't enough to sort out the intonation there could be some issue with the strings?
I am currently using nickel Rotosound and the bass has been unused in a wardrobe in a basement for 8 years. i also shipped it from Italy to the UK last month via courier.

[Muppet]

If fretted notes at the 12th are sharp compared to the harmonic or open string you should be lengthening the string by moving the saddle back surely, away from the pick ups?

[HowieBass]

If the strings are sharp then you need to lengthen the speaking length, move the saddles further back rather than forward as you've been doing.

[stingrayPete1977]

I remember "shorten to sharpen" regarding the free string between nut and saddle,moving the saddles wildly you can also go through incorrect scale lengths in relation to the frets (which are fixed obviously) and the string becomes right but wrong if that makes sense?

Edited January 15, 2017 by stingrayPete1977

[Iacopo San]

Damn. I have been misled by a tutorial video on youtube, when I believe they said the opposite. And I did a small adjusment in that direction for the other strings and it seemed to work.Embarassing

Thanks!

[Iacopo San]

Slright, I don't understand... I tried lengthening the string instead of shortening by bringing the saddle closer to the bridge but this cause the 12th fret to be even more sharp (higher pitch). Maybe I am not explaining myself properly?

And by moving closer to the pickup the 12th fret note gets closer to be in tune but the saddle gets to the limit and it is still a bit sharp.........

[Muppet]

Just so I understand, you're tuning your open strings to standard pitch then your note at the 12th fret is still sharp regardless which way you move the saddles? Given that you've changed strings, are they seated correctly in the slots at the nut?

[Iacopo San]

Correct. Open strings are in tune and 12th fret is sharp (higher pitch) and to get it closer to tune i need to move the bridge saddles closer to the pick ups, but i reach the limit and at the 12th fret they remain sharp. This is only for the E and A strings.

[Muppet]

Are the strings getting stuck in the nut slots? Are the frets in poor condition?

[Iacopo San]

Everything seems in order to be honest. What i don't understand also is why i need to shorten the length of the string to make the 12th fret less sharp, instead of lengthening as everyone is suggesting. :/

[MoonBassAlpha]

Once you have moved the saddle make sure you check the open note with the tuner, not just at the 12th fret, as moving the saddle will lower the pitch at the 12th fret, seemingly making it in tune, but the open note will be much more flat. So, check both open and 12th after making adjustments. Do use an electronic tuner so you can quantify your readings.

[HowieBass]

Just out of interest is everything else within spec for the bass - correct neck relief, correct action, correct string to pickup gap? Intonation is the last thing I check when I do a setup. It makes no sense to me that the fretted notes at the 12th/octave stay sharp regardless of whether you move the saddle forwards or backwards.

[Iacopo San]

Once I move the saddle i do check the intonation for both open string and 12th fret.

I left the intonation set up for last yes, i did all the rest before, but i didn't touch the truss rod as i would have to take the neck off on my model and I'd like to avoid it at the moment. From a visual check it seems ok though.

[Iacopo San]

I am using a fairly cheap electronic tuner connected via Jack cable. It picks up variations so i don't think that's the problem. When i move the saddles they have an effect on the tuning, but as i said opposite to what people are saying here? If i move the saddle to the left (closer to the pickups) i bring the tune of the 12th fret down, not up

[HowieBass]

Just in case there's some oddity with the tuner (though I can't think what) you might try a tuner app if you own a smartphone. I've got this on mine and it's good for a free app https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bork.dsp.datuna&hl=en_GB otherwise the only other thing I can think of that affects intonation is that the affected strings have kinks in them.

[Woodinblack]

[quote name='Iacopo San' timestamp='1484524310' post='3216151']
I am using a fairly cheap electronic tuner connected via Jack cable. It picks up variations so i don't think that's the problem. When i move the saddles they have an effect on the tuning, but as i said opposite to what people are saying here? If i move the saddle to the left (closer to the pickups) i bring the tune of the 12th fret down, not up
[/quote]

Something must be binding. When you move the saddle to the left, the string pitch will obviously go down as the string is shorter. When you retune to get it to get the open string back in tune before measuring the fretted pitch again, does the pitch change cleanly?

-- edit -

although that should only make a difference if the tension wasn't even in the string.

Edited January 16, 2017 by Woodinblack

[HowieBass]

[quote name='Woodinblack' timestamp='1484525744' post='3216160']
When you move the saddle to the left, the string pitch will obviously go down as the string is shorter.
[/quote]

Surely the pitch increases/gets sharper as you shorten the string?

[Woodinblack]

[quote name='HowieBass' timestamp='1484526688' post='3216164']
Surely the pitch increases/gets sharper as you shorten the string?
[/quote]

The relative pitch between the fretted note and the harmonic at the 12th and 19th fret will get sharper, yes.

I meant the act of shortening the string will lower the pitch overall until you retune it after you finish and recheck.

[Iacopo San]

[quote name='Woodinblack' timestamp='1484525744' post='3216160']
Something must be binding. When you move the saddle to the left, the string pitch will obviously go down as the string is shorter. When you retune to get it to get the open string back in tune before measuring the fretted pitch again, does the pitch change cleanly?

-- edit -

although that should only make a difference if the tension wasn't even in the string.
[/quote]

What do you mean by cleanly?
When I move the saddle to the left the open string does change pitch yes, I tune it again and then check the 12th fret, and in my case the pitch at the 12th fret has lowered if I move the saddle to the left (closer to the pick ups).

I wonder now if I do anything wrong? When I move the saddle towards the pick ups the saddle initially does not move due to the pressure of the string, so I have to lift the string from the saddle, and this is pushed towards the pick ups by the spring. Is that normal?

[Woodinblack]

I mean when you tune it does it tune smoothly or does it stick for a bit then jump up pitch then stick again.

The saddle thing on fender bridges is pretty normal.

[Iacopo San]

It tunes smoothly, yes.

[Muppet]

These are not particularly complex pieces of technology - there's only so much that can be wrong. I'd set everything back to standard and work from there. Check out the 'intonation (roughing it out)' section here [url="https://support.fender.com/hc/en-us/articles/214343843-How-do-I-set-up-my-bass-guitar-properly"]https://support.fender.com/hc/en-us/articles/214343843-How-do-I-set-up-my-bass-guitar-properly[/url]-

Don't rule out dodgy strings either.

[geoffbyrne]

Are your pickup(s) set up close to the strings? If so, turns the screws and lower them well away from the strings as this can affect the tuning - google 'stratitis'.

G.

[Iacopo San]

Thanks, I wasn't familiar with this. I don't think the pickup is too close, but I will give it a try.
However, this should not explain why I need to shorten the length of the string at the bridge to lower the pitch at the 12th fret, no?

[Adethefade]

A couple of observations; when you adjust a saddle screw, if the string is under tension sometimes the saddle won't actually move. You need to lift the string from the saddle seating to free its movement up. Also, I have, on a couple of occasions, found that the pickup being set too high can mess with intonation; probably because of the magnet 'pull'.

When you fret the note at the 12th, it's important to apply the sort of pressure you'd realistically use when playing the instrument. If you press too hard, the note will be 'bent' out of tune. I [i]always[/i] set intonation with the instrument in the playing position, not on the bench, because the readings will be different.

As has been said, it's important to get your head around the direction of adjustment - moving the saddle away from the neck will flatten the noise, and towards the neck will sharpen it...and remember that any adjustment is applied to the [i]whole string[/i]; you have to retune the open note after every movement, before checking the fretted note.

Edited January 21, 2017 by Adethefade