dmccombe7 Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 Haven't read the full thread and this may have been asked already. If so my apologies but i have to go out now. Can anyone buy the test kit to self test the gear or does it need to be a qualified electrician. ? Obviously its not just about doing the test but also keeping the register of all gear with results taken. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 You can do a course just for pat testing, you could do it yourself providing you can prove that you are competent which I can't see how you could do without the course or just being a full blown electrician or at least have some form of electrical qualification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 (edited) Well I don't seem to be able to get any decent PAT testing kit (which I could get friendly sparky I know, to pop round and use and sign us off on - as he currently doesn't have his own PAT kit) for less than £125 to £150 second hand. I have managed to find a chap via Gumtree who will pop round and test all our gear next weekend for £40 to £50 (£40 for 20 items - where a powered PA and its lead count as 2 items) etc. He's also confirmed that anything < 1 year old doesn't need testing. Edited June 16, 2018 by Al Krow 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmccombe7 Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 2 hours ago, stingrayPete1977 said: You can do a course just for pat testing, you could do it yourself providing you can prove that you are competent which I can't see how you could do without the course or just being a full blown electrician or at least have some form of electrical qualification. I retired 2 yrs ago (early of course - ) but was a qualified electrical and electronics engineer at one time and served an apprenticeship as an Instrument engineer. Last qualification were the 16th edition so well out of date on them. Altho i was an Engineering Manager / ABM for last 15-20 yrs i was still very hands on. Not sure if that would count. I haven't done PAT testing before but didn't look like much to it. Would that qualify me ? Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmccombe7 Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 57 minutes ago, Al Krow said: Well I don't seem to be able to get any decent PAT testing kit (which I could get friendly sparky I know, to pop round and use and sign us off on - as he currently doesn't have his own PAT kit) for less than £125 to £150 second hand. I have managed to find a chap via Gumtree who will pop round and test all our gear next weekend for £40 to £50 (£40 for 20 items - where a powered PA and its lead count as 2 items) etc. He's also confirmed that anything < 1 year old doesn't need testing. My nephew is a qualified electrician that does PAT testing. Might be cheaper to get him to do it. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 35 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said: I retired 2 yrs ago (early of course - ) but was a qualified electrical and electronics engineer at one time and served an apprenticeship as an Instrument engineer. Last qualification were the 16th edition so well out of date on them. Altho i was an Engineering Manager / ABM for last 15-20 yrs i was still very hands on. Not sure if that would count. I haven't done PAT testing before but didn't look like much to it. Would that qualify me ? Dave I'd say so yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 1 hour ago, dmccombe7 said: My nephew is a qualified electrician that does PAT testing. Might be cheaper to get him to do it. Dave Is he based down in London, Dave? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmccombe7 Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 14 minutes ago, Al Krow said: Is he based down in London, Dave? Afraid not he's local to me in Lanark area. Nice try tho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, dmccombe7 said: Afraid not he's local to me in Lanark area. Aha in which he definitely won't be cheaper than the guy I have got lined up (for me down in the big smoke)... Edited June 16, 2018 by Al Krow 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leemarseillebass Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 I work in an entertainment venue, the chap that comes testing every bloody amp, kettle and vibrator told me the whole PAT test thing came from the wife of a TORY MP whose wife got a shock from a hotel hairdryer - is this true?? Ok, I fibbed about the vibr...kettle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casapete Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 From Wiki - In the UK, there is no requirement to have a formal qualification for persons carrying out PAT Testing. The Electricity at Work regulations of 1989 simply state that where required, inspecting and testing must be carried out by a competent person, however does not mention a benchmark for competency. It has become accepted practice, however, for individuals operating as PAT Testers to hold a 2377–22 City and Guilds qualification. PAT Testers in the UK do not need to be electricians or have a background in the electrical industry. An example of a nationally recognised qualification of competence in PAT is offered by City & Guilds: 'Code of Practice for In-service Inspection and Testing of Electrical Equipment – 4th Edition (No. 2377)'.[13] although there are others provided by EAL available. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casapete Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 (edited) From ebay (not that I'm suggesting such practice...) - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Roll-1000-PAT-Test-Testing-PASS-Labels-Non-Rip-40-x-24mm-PASSED-Stickers/111189293839?hash=item19e365fb0f:g:zm8AAOxyDEVSbozG Be careful out there, lot of charlatans around. Edited June 17, 2018 by casapete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taunton-hobbit Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 ^ ^ ^ which completely negates the whole thing - MOT certs next? 😎 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepbass5 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 Over a year ago when i first replied to this post - and guess what, I am running the PAT test course this week. Though that won't help you its fully booked. but its about £350 if ya interested That said I do not believe you need to have done this course to be deemed competent, although it would be the best evidence to show you are. It is about due diligence so a spark should be fine. You know what to look for that could be dangerous, Inspection is the key part, the test with the machine will prove things you can't see. PUWER regs 1998 places a duty on people and companies who own, operate or have control over work equipment. a) suitable for intended use b) safe for use and maintained in a safe condition C) Used only by persons who have received adequate training (could be used to get rid of your guitarist) d) accompanied by suitable H&S measures I think this is the reason, not an MP wife For the Record on another PAT testing thread I did point out that Showaddywaddy had a gig cancelled when local council officials turned up to inspect there certs, and found PA etc in dangerous condition. I expect the crew were trying it on with the local venue staff. If you are receiving money to play you are being employed. If you run the band, The law may see you as the manager of your outfit and the one to answer in court for the death of a guest or musician who gets electrocuted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 1 hour ago, casapete said: From ebay (not that I'm suggesting such practice...) - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Roll-1000-PAT-Test-Testing-PASS-Labels-Non-Rip-40-x-24mm-PASSED-Stickers/111189293839?hash=item19e365fb0f:g:zm8AAOxyDEVSbozG Be careful out there, lot of charlatans around. I dont know why people are always surprised that you can buy the stickers online in pat test threads, I'm sure I could buy some surgical scalpels but that wouldn't make me a surgeon either. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casapete Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 4 minutes ago, deepbass5 said: For the Record on another PAT testing thread I did point out that Showaddywaddy had a gig cancelled when local council officials turned up to inspect there certs, and found PA etc in dangerous condition. I expect the crew were trying it on with the local venue staff. My amp tech friend always maintains that when you're asked by a venue for your PAT certificates, you should counter this by asking for their up to date certificate of electrical safety for the venue. Also more stuff here - http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg247.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmccombe7 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, stingrayPete1977 said: I dont know why people are always surprised that you can buy the stickers online in pat test threads, I'm sure I could buy some surgical scalpels but that wouldn't make me a surgeon either. Does in my book. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmccombe7 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 2 hours ago, leemarseillebass said: I work in an entertainment venue, the chap that comes testing every bloody amp, kettle and vibrator told me the whole PAT test thing came from the wife of a TORY MP whose wife got a shock from a hotel hairdryer - is this true?? Ok, I fibbed about the vibr...kettle. That was the story i heard when it first came out. No idea if its true but sounds about right without getting into political parties of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casapete Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 Same as me owning a bass really......😅 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmccombe7 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 16 minutes ago, casapete said: Same as me owning a bass really......😅 Wish i had thought of that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepbass5 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 Totally agree with Casapete we should all push back a bit with these venues, and ask to see their periodic testing certs for the venue installation . best have your paperwork in order first though. I have seen many bad things in the last 30 years that the venue expect me to plug into. In our bands conditions of hire, I state that we maintain the right to refuse to play should we find the electrical installation to be in a dangerous condition. I state that it should be maintained in a safe condition and correctly earthed as defined in the IEE regs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 2 hours ago, casapete said: From ebay (not that I'm suggesting such practice...) - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Roll-1000-PAT-Test-Testing-PASS-Labels-Non-Rip-40-x-24mm-PASSED-Stickers/111189293839?hash=item19e365fb0f:g:zm8AAOxyDEVSbozG Be careful out there, lot of charlatans around. ^^^^ That's what I use. Mind, I've only been asked to see them once, at a festival where the health & safety guy was a 'qualified' PAT tester who could test any uncertified gear for a reasonable fee. How convenient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 26 minutes ago, casapete said: My amp tech friend always maintains that when you're asked by a venue for your PAT certificates, you should counter this by asking for their up to date certificate of electrical safety for the venue. Also more stuff here - http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg247.pdf What happens if they give you a copy? Or what happens if they don't for that matter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casapete Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 Just now, stingrayPete1977 said: What happens if they give you a copy? Or what happens if they don't for that matter? If they do then happy days, you know you're (in theory) both covered. If they don't then it's up to you if you want to risk using their supply, your call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 I carry one of those cheap plug in testers in my gig bag to check the polarity and if it has an earth, better than any certificate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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