acoustic instruments and piezos

[Geek99]

hi all

can I have your thoughts on this? Its about a twelve string Tanglewood Oddyssey (bought off here). Its a narrowbody with a bowlback. It had an Artec APC Pro with a [u][b]solid[/b][/u] PP607 piezo in the bridge, 75 mm saddle with symmetrical min height of 4mm and rises to 6mm high at the centre, Width is 3mm.
When I got it, the preamp didnt work, but since I had no need of it, I didnt pay too much attention. It sounds awesome acoustically.

Fast forward and I find tuning it a pain; I wanted an onboard preamp with a tuner so after much searching for a narrow preamp I finally found that a Fishman Presys + would fit with a little chopping of the cutout. It comes with a mesh style piezo.I kept this as A) its hard wired into the preamp the existing piezo had a 3.5mm jack on and I didnt want to chop and join.

Its fitted, it works and I threw the rubbish away, its was only when I went to retune it that I noticed the bass E strings were a bit low and buzzy,.

two reasons
1. The mesh squashes, in a way that the solid preamp didnt so the saddle sits a little lower.
2. There is less bulk (no solid right angle) where the wire passes though into the bridge and so the saddle "wobbles" on the bass E position and sits lower as it tips slightly under the tension.

I'm aware that the mesh style allows fuller contact between saddle and body and so has some advantages, Equally I need it to work.

My thoughts are
1. buy another a solid piezo and join it (I foolishly threw the existing one not realising they cost about £13
2. get a taller saddle(possibly a compensated one) and sand it down. Issues - 1) most of the claimed bone ones seem actually to be plastic 2) I might cock it up ( any tricks tha tI can pickup)
3. Prop the saddle up with some match sticks and sand those down


What do you recommend, folks ?

Edited January 24, 2017 by Geek99

[MoonBassAlpha]

You could try a thin sliver of veneer the whole length of the saddle slot to restore the height.

[3below]

[quote name='MoonBassAlpha' timestamp='1485266319' post='3222607']
You could try a thin sliver of veneer the whole length of the saddle slot to restore the height.
[/quote]

Variant on the above, thin strip of plastic e.g. microwave meal container. Plenty of hardish plastic readily available to experiment with.

[Geek99]

all true, but I dont see how that helps the bridge wobbling on the softer mesh transducer.

I can buy a cheapo solid piezo on amazon, can someone advise if I can just joint the cables ?

[MoonBassAlpha]

[quote name='Geek99' timestamp='1485267363' post='3222617']
all true, but I dont see how that helps the bridge wobbling on the softer mesh transducer.
[/quote]
I guess it depends on how deep the saddle slot is, but could you beef up the thickness of the saddle, say, with superglue, then rub it down to a good fit in the slot so it can't wobble.

[3below]

[quote name='Geek99' timestamp='1485267363' post='3222617']
all true, but I dont see how that helps the bridge wobbling on the softer mesh transducer.

I can buy a cheapo solid piezo on amazon, can someone advise if I can just joint the cables ?
[/quote]

Cables can be soldered together. I have used one of the cheapo piezos in an acoustic bass I have, it works well.

[Geek99]

[quote name='3below' timestamp='1485327671' post='3223076']


Cables can be soldered together. I have used one of the cheapo piezos in an acoustic bass I have, it works well.
[/quote]

Thank you I ordered a cheap one and will report back
Does anyone have an opinion on bone nuts or compensated saddles ?

Edit: I've ordered a cheapie compensated nut to try also

Edited January 26, 2017 by Geek99

[Geek99]

[quote name='MoonBassAlpha' timestamp='1485299681' post='3223016']

I guess it depends on how deep the saddle slot is, but could you beef up the thickness of the saddle, say, with superglue, then rub it down to a good fit in the slot so it can't wobble.
[/quote]
Interesting idea but I think movement of the strings when tuned would eventually bust it loose

[yorks5stringer]

Bone nuts are easy enough to make: go to the £1 shop, buy a dog bone, cut and shape! If you take too much off, do it again with another bit of bone, unless you are 'bone idle'!

[Geek99]

Drum Roll please

[Geek99]

[quote name='Geek99' timestamp='1485331551' post='3223094']


Thank you I ordered a cheap one and will report back
Does anyone have an opinion on bone nuts or compensated saddles ?

Edit: I've ordered a cheapie compensated nut to try also
[/quote]
Annoyingly I found the original piezo on the gravel today while reroofing the shed - must have fallen from my pocket days ago

[Geek99]

ok - -its fitted and working

You can join the piezo cables - its just a wire core and a earthing sleeve. I used a simple connector block from Wilkos. Rigid piezos are way better that the cable ones as shown in my picture - the saddle doesnt wobble.

The new piezo is a bit taller than the original one but i used it since it looks more robust. This means the strings are a bit high.

The onboard tuner is brilliant - works very well.

I didnt use the compensated saddle in the end - i hadnt noticed that the saddle is seated at a slant and I think this may be good enough.

issues remaining - the saddle sits high and will need to be sanded down by at least 1mm - probably more. Bit concerned that this will reduce the already slim break angle even further - pictures tomorrow.