Musical ability - Colour and Genes

[deepbass5]

As i sit here desperately trying to play the Gordon Goodwin arrangement of MUEVA LOS HUESOS

I pose the eternal question to you, as a "white boy" an old "white Boy" at that, am i just the wrong colour or ethnic Anglo Saxon mix to be playing Latin.
God knows i've have had enough trouble over the years trying to master some the Blues derived music of our African American brothers, I often feel i lack the groove of those Jazz, RnB and funk artists I have grown to admire. But I get by.

[b]But Latin[/b] !! i just can't feel it, i can't count it either.

Is it genetic or can it be taught, or is it more about being immersed in that music and soaking it up over time. Your comments please



https://youtu.be/dRjzCKJN6sM


https://youtu.be/IWBkVucVMCY another jem in the pad - some make it look easy,

[tinyd]

You can definitely learn it but as you say, you need to immerse yourself in it. I learned to play a bit of Latin percussion before I even tried playing bass to Latin tunes and it made a big difference. The Salsa Guidebook by Rebecca Mauleon is a great read and it covers all the various styles and instruments.

[yorks5stringer]

It's the age old quandary: "Can Blue men sing the Whites, or are they hypocrites"?

[arthurhenry]

I appreciate that there's humour in your post, but I hope you don't really think that ethnic origin would have any bearing on anyone's ability to play anything. You're a mammal with fingers and ears. Listen, listen, listen, absorb, absorb, absorb, practise, practise, practise.

[itsmedunc]

Ha! Reminds me of "The Jerk"! The culture and the feel of that culture, you were born into, I'm sure would help but I'm sure (as the last post has stated) practice (and awareness) would see you through admirably. For me it would take too much patience and practice and I would always sound like Steve Martin.

Edited January 29, 2017 by itsmedunc

[JoeEvans]

In terms of purely genetic differences, there are no real races. There are all kinds of different genetic things going on, but no clear cut pattern of racial differences. From a scientific perspective, there's only one race: the human race.

Which is to say, genes don't mean much and culture and lived experience is everything. Babies in the Balkans respond better to 7/8 rhythms but there's no gene for that.

[AndyTravis]

Having just done a very 'Latin' feeling track lead by the bass, I think everything in music is down to feel - there's not a part of my genealogy which is Latino, I'm not schooled in music and I have no burning desire to play Latin jazz...but I had a part, an idea...and that's the way the track went.

I have played with drummers who can play anything, some who can play really western stuff really well but can't deviate and some who've been transfixed with Latin rhythms.

Ability is whatever fits.

[darkandrew]

I suppose a similar question could be asked about sporting ability - is the child of successful footballer or racing driver going to have a natural talent passed down genetically or is it about being brought up immersed in the sport? Eg. Max Verstappen, Nico Rosberg, Kasper Schmeichel, etc

[deepbass5]

Like most questions in life you know the answer but its easier to think there is some external influence working against you. I had decided to get down to some serious shedding on the number last night, but my mind wasn't in the right place. It was easier and more enjoyable to switch on the computer and moan to you guys.
There is a lot of unison parts in this piece so the Bass is playing the same phrases as the Keyboard, Baritone and trombone section. If you are out it is pretty obvious.

I'll check that book out - tinyd

I added the John Patitucci clip because I recalled how smug he had looked having nailed that particular number

As you say you don't get that without putting the work in.

[BrunoBass]

[quote name='darkandrew' timestamp='1485733325' post='3226319']
I suppose a similar question could be asked about sporting ability - is the child of successful footballer or racing driver going to have a natural talent passed down genetically or is it about being brought up immersed in the sport? Eg. Max Verstappen, Nico Rosberg, Kasper Schmeichel, etc
[/quote]

A bit of both I think, although Max Verstappen's freakish talent is a god given gift and not simply just a case of being bought up around karting and cars. Having a super quick mum and dad seems to have produced some kind of genetic racing super hybrid.

[MrDaveTheBass]

I was taught Latin music by one of the most talented guitar players that I think I've met. His rythmn, timing and feel were just amazing. The thing was though, he didn't consider himself to be a guitarist - he always said that he was really a timbale player! I learnt more about Latin feel and timing in an hour's percussion workshop, banging various cowbells and shakers than I ever did whilst holding a bass.

[chris_b]

[quote name='deepbass5' timestamp='1485728895' post='3226263']I pose the eternal question to you, as a "white boy" an old "white Boy" at that, am i just the wrong colour or ethnic Anglo Saxon mix to be playing Latin. [/quote]

It's not genes, it's culture. Who do you think was the bass player on Mr Big Stuff? It was white as white Vernie Robbins.

If like me you grew up listening to the Billy Cotton Band Show and records by Frank Ifield and Shirley Abicaire you started at a massive musical disadvantage.

Duck Dunn was a white musician in a black music world, as was Steve Cropper, Dan Penn and Tommy Cogbill. Those guys grew up listening to the right music. If Tito Puente grew up in the UK in the 50's he'd probably sound like just another percussionist.

With our backgrounds most of us just have to work twice as hard to get half the way there.

[lowdown]

[quote name='deepbass5' timestamp='1485728895' post='3226263']
Is it genetic or can it be taught,

[url="https://youtu.be/dRjzCKJN6sM"]https://youtu.be/dRjzCKJN6sM[/url]


[url="https://youtu.be/IWBkVucVMCY"]https://youtu.be/IWBkVucVMCY[/url] another jem in the pad - some make it look easy,
[/quote]

I have always put it down to the culture thing. If you are surrounded by it and are listening along with playing it daily, eventually it should rub off.
But saying that, I think some musicians are quicker on the uptake and more comfortable than others, when it comes to digesting other musical cultures.

The 'Gordon Goodwin Big Phat Band'....My favorite Big Band at the moment.
Fantastic arrangements with top, top players.

A bit OT but, this arrangement from the band is just [i]stunning[/i] and Swings like the clappers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ggx8bgJ4Q38&index=14&list=PLoIQEr7Oj68LtMCFU5-UbasosNgkeIr2z

[TheGreek]

I hope not...have you heard traditional Greek music??

[deepbass5]

Spot on as usual Chris, before looking at the replies i was just thinking about the music played on the Radio in the late 50s early 60s and it was very safe. Roger Whitaker, The Seekers with Puff the magic dragon thrown in for the kids.
and American standards were the norm until Brit POP really took off. To answer my own question - we didn't have a record player in the house until my Sister got one in her teens, Then Motown hit me and I think I was destined to play bass from then ten years before I ever picked one up. Ain't No Mountain high enough just blew me away, despite being a brass player at the time it was the descending bass line and bass counter melodies that hooked me.

and thanks Lowdown, its probably only a matter of time before that appears,

well I am just gonna switch the amp on and get back to it.