Would you sell...

[T-Bay]

[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1485852036' post='3227115']


So, the application of that scenario to this case doesn't really fit. The "buyer" in Thailand would either have to send it from their own account and try and get their own bank to refund it without proof that it was sent fraudulently or convince the bank that it was sent fraudulently sent without any evidence in the hope thatbthe bank might reverse it. As you say, there are always some asshats trying to find a work around.
[/quote]
Or they hack someone else's account and pay from that one........

[ProfJames]

I have used Paypal gift on several occasions and had no bother. I always try to buy locally though and use cash. Always do the shaking of the hands though.

[dyerseve]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1485808546' post='3226919']
Don't think he can claim back a Paypal Gift can he?

I don't like the under-declaring the value though. That way there would be no insurance.

If you're talking about your Status Grafite, that's serious money to a person on Thai wages. Smells funny.
[/quote]

Lots of people live in Thailand mate, some of whom are very wealthy - just like most other countries! I sold a pair of high end speaker cables to bloke in Thailand years ago, paid via bank transfer, no issues at all. The value of these cables would be more than most of secondhand Status's!

Dont know why people are saying not to accept paypal gift. It cannot be reversed which is why it is free to use - no transaction insurance to pay for!

[Grangur]

[quote name='dyerseve' timestamp='1486156322' post='3229772']


Lots of people live in Thailand mate, some of whom are very wealthy - just like most other countries! I sold a pair of high end speaker cables to bloke in Thailand years ago, paid via bank transfer, no issues at all. The value of these cables would be more than most of secondhand Status's!

Dont know why people are saying not to accept paypal gift. It cannot be reversed which is why it is free to use - no transaction insurance to pay for!
[/quote]

First, on Thailand you're probably right.

On Gift, I don't get that either.

[ambient]

[quote name='dyerseve' timestamp='1486156322' post='3229772']
Lots of people live in Thailand mate, some of whom are very wealthy - just like most other countries! I sold a pair of high end speaker cables to bloke in Thailand years ago, paid via bank transfer, no issues at all. The value of these cables would be more than most of secondhand Status's!

Dont know why people are saying not to accept paypal gift. It cannot be reversed which is why it is free to use - no transaction insurance to pay for!
[/quote]
[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1486158248' post='3229797']
First, on Thailand you're probably right.

On Gift, I don't get that either.
[/quote]

Maybe you'd have a problem if they paid you using a hacked Paypal account, or a stolen or skimmed credit card. That happened to someone I know. He sold an amp on eBay. The winning bidder according to eBay was someone with a very English sounding name in the UK. Payment was made immediately via Paypal, then came an email from 'the winning bidder', asking my friend to send the amp to somewhere in Nairobi. It was a hacked account.

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='Wooks79' timestamp='1485783118' post='3226618']
Nothing to do with a scam, but I got a message from someone about a pedal I'm selling on Facebook groups...

"I just bought an afterneath, for about the same price as yours but yours looks in better conditions, so I was thinking to bring that back and buy yours, if it's worth it and if you're willing to a bit lower with the price"

Which I thought was mega cheeky so told him I wouldn't sell him it, cos I imagined how annoyed I'd be if I was the person who had sold him the original one, suddenly getting asked to return it cos he'd seen a better condition one!

Some people...
[/quote]

Probably underage.

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='T-Bay' timestamp='1485806085' post='3226881']
Even bank transfer isn't as guaranteed as people think it is, it can still be claimed back in certain circumstances.
[/quote]

Banks do NOT have their common customers' (ourselves, if you will) interests at heart except for those who are gullible enough to buy "product" from them, time and time again. That's my experience within this country. I wouldn't attempt to sell abroad as there are even less guarantees that way.

@ OP; Make yours a seller's market my friend. Make them jump to your tune, so to speak.

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1485818026' post='3227028']
[u]I would be interested to know what circumstances might warrant that.[/u] I had an incident with internet banking where funds were sent to somewhere they shouldn't have. My fault. I screwed up, so no issue with anyone else. I had discussions with my bank and others about getting it back from where it had been sent and the concensus was that as it wasn't fraudulent, I would have to wave it goodbye. Fortunately for me, I had tried to send it to an account that didn't actually exist, so it bounced back to me. Phew!

Just genuinely interested from a learning standpoint. Not that I'm planning on it happening a second time you understand.
[/quote]

Genuine error on the part of the bank account holder (in this case yourself). That is the only thing I can think of and even then there would be little sympathy if my banks are owt to go by. Seems you have found it to be the same with yours.

Folk say buyer beware. It cuts both ways when you have faceless intermediaries in the chain like internet go-betweens. Seller be safe.

Edited February 4, 2017 by SpondonBassed

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='dyerseve' timestamp='1486156322' post='3229772']
Lots of people live in Thailand mate, some of whom are very wealthy - just like most other countries! I sold a pair of high end speaker cables to bloke in Thailand years ago, paid via bank transfer, no issues at all. The value of these cables would be more than most of secondhand Status's!

Dont know why people are saying not to accept paypal gift. It cannot be reversed which is why it is free to use - no transaction insurance to pay for!
[/quote]

One reason not to entertain the idea is because it is a S A L E.

You're not giving or receiving a gift in the case of the OP. How can you make any sort of argument if you've chosen to call the deal a "gift" transaction? If anything goes wrong with a gift transaction that is actually a SALE you're stuffed because you've been trying to be "clever". Take up the argument with HMRC if you don't believe me.

[dyerseve]

Calm down buddy. Yes it's a sale and the PayPal gift option is just one way to transfer funds. Absolutely nothing to do with being clever and NO PayPal payment option has anything to do with HMRC. What was you point again?

[karlfer]

Hmmm
http://basschat.co.uk/topic/252025-paypal-gift-payments/

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='dyerseve' timestamp='1486241768' post='3230346']
Calm down buddy. Yes it's a sale and the PayPal gift option is just one way to transfer funds. Absolutely nothing to do with being clever and NO PayPal payment option has anything to do with HMRC. What was you point again?
[/quote]

Whoosh.

[dyerseve]

[quote name='karlfer' timestamp='1486242221' post='3230350']
Hmmm
http://basschat.co.uk/topic/252025-paypal-gift-payments/
[/quote]

The OP is selling, therefore there is no risk to him.

[dyerseve]

[quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1486243275' post='3230358']


Whoosh.
[/quote]

Come on then, I'm still waiting for your point... if you know it all then do tell

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='dyerseve' timestamp='1486243484' post='3230361']
Come on then, I'm still waiting for your point... if you know it all then do tell
[/quote]

Point made. You wont have a leg to stand on in any court if you call money exchanged in a sale a gift. Sorry I had to spell it out again.

Now it's your turn to calm down I think.

[dyerseve]

[quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1486243955' post='3230367']


Point made. You wont have a leg to stand on in any court if you call money exchanged in a sale a gift. Sorry I had to spell it out again.

Now it's your turn to calm down I think.
[/quote]
Umm the OP is SELLING the bass so he doesnt need to worry about it. Sorry that needs to be spelt out to you.

[Grangur]

Am I missing something here?

As I see it, ice you're buying you should only ever use PayPal using the facility of telling them that you're buying goods. That way, as a buyer you are protected.

If you're a seller, as our OP is, the risk with the PayPal service is when the buyer gets the bass, then tells PayPal it never arrived. PayPal then refund the money and our man looses. So, this is why we tell him to insist on the Gift method. Then the buyer doesn't have the opportunity to fleece him.

Please can someone be so kind as to tell me what I'm missing?

Edited February 5, 2017 by Grangur

[SpondonBassed]

Don't worry. Someone will spell it out for you presently.

[dyerseve]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1486247279' post='3230396']
Am I missing something here?

As I see it, ice you're buying you should only ever use PayPal ice you use the facility of telling them that you're buying goods. That way, as a buyer you are protected.

If you're a seller, as our OP is, the risk with the PayPal service is when the buyer gets the bass, then tells PayPal it never arrived. PayPal then refund the money and our man looses. So, this is why we tell him to insist on the Gift method. Then the buyer doesn't have the opportunity to fleece him.

Please can someone be so kind as to tell me what I'm missing?
[/quote]

100% correct. Which is exactly why I have been saying for the OP, or any seller, that it's ok to accept PayPal gift payment.

[Grangur]

[quote name='ped' timestamp='1485808878' post='3226927']
Two rules to live by

Never use PayPal Gift
Always ship insured to full value

You can't go wrong with the above but people still ignore them.
[/quote]

So you've never sold using PayPal and have a buyer claim it never arrived? PayPal simply refund back to the buyer out of your PayPal account. So you're down a bass and no cash.

If you've already withdrawn the funds it gets billed to your bank account details or credit card.

[ped]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1486286280' post='3230503']
So you've never sold using PayPal and have a buyer claim it never arrived? PayPal simply refund back to the buyer out of your PayPal account. So you're down a bass and no cash.

If you've already withdrawn the funds it gets billed to your bank account details or credit card.
[/quote]

No, because I always send insured and signed for. Not that I sell very often, to be honest, and with bass gear I usually chat to the person on the phone if I can't meet them in person.

[dyerseve]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1486286280' post='3230503']


So you've never sold using PayPal and have a buyer claim it never arrived? PayPal simply refund back to the buyer out of your PayPal account. So you're down a bass and no cash.

If you've already withdrawn the funds it gets billed to your bank account details or credit card.
[/quote]

Again, spot on mate. People seem not to realise if you are selling that the PayPal gift option is your best friend.

Obviously its a different story when buying and paying by PayPal gift. You would want to do your research on the seller before parting with your hard earned. This is where the feedback section of this forum is so beneficial. A bit of commonsense also goes a long way as does picking up the phone and speaking with seller. If theres any doubt then walk away.

[mcnach]

[quote name='anzoid' timestamp='1485781001' post='3226582']
Not 100% sure where to put this so, Mods, feel free to move it to the right place.

Got my Status Streamline 5-string up for sale and got a message from someone (zero posts...) asking me to ship to Thailand. I quoted a price and requested direct bank transfer. He/She has come back asking if I take PayPal and would I declare the value of the bass at £200 to avoid import tax.

My reply was: no to PayPal to a non-UK destination, and no to mis-declaring the value of the bass (it's worth a little more than £200...).

Right response, or would you have done the deal?
[/quote]

Nah. Like you I'd request bank transfer. Not worth risking it.

[mcnach]

[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1485818209' post='3227033']
....I should add that they did say I might get it back if the recipient returned it of their own accord. My stance was that it would have been theft at the point of the dishonest appropriation, i.e. when the recipient saw it in their account and decided to keep it, but that argument fell on deaf ears. Easy to allege, difficult to prove unfortunately.
[/quote]

Keep that conversation, if in writing, and if one day the bank adds a couple of zeros to your balance, take all the cash out and show them that afterwards

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='T-Bay' timestamp='1485847725' post='3227080']
A mate at work had his internet banking account hacked and one payment of £350 went missing amongst others, he could prove he hadn't sent it and was refunded by the bank. There was a police investigation from the other end as the money was sent to a guy in Nottingham to pay for a camera bought off gumtree by the person who hacked his account. He was interviewed by the Police and was obviously fine but they told him the other guy was a student and was distraught as he had only been selling the camera to fund his car insurance and couldn't afford it any other way. My mate felt so bad about it he offered to donate a few quid towards the lads insurance and others at work agreed to chip in, he made the offer to the coppers but we never heard anything back. When he was dealing with his bank they didn't seem to need much evidence to do the claim back from what he said. He also said that the person he had dealt with had told him that people mistakingly thing its bullet proof but due to the amount of fraud on it they have introduced new rules a couple of years back which make it much easier to get the money back if needed.

Sadly for every method or protecting yourself as a buyer/seller there is always some scumbag trying to work around it.
[/quote]

This is true - Banks can claw-back transfers.

I had a customer once tell me we had fraudulently taken money from her account. She had a direct debit with us, and owed us a lot of money, so a lot of money was taken on the direct debit. She called the bank, got it refunded, and then cancelled the direct debit.

People are mental.