Building up finger stamina

[T-Bay]

We are going through a few new songs for our set and a couple are pretty quick and repetitive on the bass parts. I have not been playing that long and have found that I am getting cramp in either my fingers or thumb towards the end of these songs. I always warm up which helps but we are planning one as the opener to the set so will either have to warm up somewhere or go straight in. I play finger style but have tried to use a pick on them but then get issues further up my arm. Apart from a shed load of practice (which I am doing anyway) is there anyway I can improve things?

Edited February 2, 2017 by T-Bay

[Number6]

My fingers were locking up a bit the other night at a gig. Luckily they loosened off between songs but i always carry a pick or two in my pocket just in case.

Btw i tend to use one of those squidgy stress balls to exercise my fingers. Then i practice a drummers exercise with my fingers - paradiddles.

Edited February 2, 2017 by Number6

[uncle psychosis]

Might just be that you need to practice more.

However, sore hands can also be caused by poor technique. I used to very really bad left hand pain but a teacher sorted it out inside of about 15 minutes.

[P-ZARN]

Try playing more lightly and increase the volume on the amp.
Mind you, the temptation to dig in is always there.

[dmccombe7]

Used to suffer from that right up to the aches / pains in forearms as if they were being over-stretched.
I was a very vigorous player for many years.
Took BC'ers advice. Turned up the amp, rolled a bit of the bass end and played a bit lighter.
Took a little time to get used to it but no aches at all now.
What i have found is that i now have more tonal variation from just using my fingers.
Give it a try and see how you get on.

Dave

[Cato]

Play with your fingertips, by that I mean literally the very tips of your fingers.

I used to hit the strings with the pads of my fingers, and, probably because I was also digging in a bit hard, used to get fatigued after about half an hour of fast playing.

I changed my style to almost brushing the strings, rather than plucking them and now I reckon I'd be be good for a four hour bar gig in Milwaukee.

You may experience a loss of volume, but let the amp take the strain.

Edited February 2, 2017 by Cato

[josie]

Yes as above technique is important, but so is simple muscle strength. The squidgy balls are good. Don't get them from a physio, go to your local pet shop and get a couple of dog chew balls. Keep one or two in your pockets and just squidge them for two or three minutes as often as you can through the day - waiting for the kettle to boil, waiting for a green light, whatever. Little and often.

[Norris]

I get the impression that the seizing is in your plucking hand. I haven't had that myself but have had seizing in my fretting hand in my youth, especially with repetitive riffs involving stretches. The key to fixing it was practice unfortunately. Being that bit quicker and stronger allows you to relax a bit more because it's within your capabilities rather than on the edge of them. You'll then tend to play with a lighter touch and be more relaxed generally.

[SteveK]

Billy Sheehan explains his technique for maintaining and improving finger strength. It mostly applies to the fretting hand, but his philosophy can equally apply to your plucking hand. There are some things in this video that I disagree with Billy Sheehan about, but he's a jolly nice chap, it's fairly entertaining, and it may help you

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVxf5VETud8[/media]

[T-Bay]

Thanks for all the replies, I am more than happy to keep practising hard but from reading the replies above it does seem I am probably playing 'too hard' so will try the advice and see how it goes.

[scalpy]

Finger strength is probably the cause, but it's worth remembering that what that's worth once achieved. Cramping up happens because tension has crept in, probably from much further up than you think. Shoulders and neck should be relaxed, you should be breathing properly. Counting the part in halftime helps, as well as focussing on being smooth, rather than 'fast'. Tension not weakness is the issue. Hippy gibberish I know, but if each one of those ideas buys you 30 seconds of extra stamina it all adds up.

[Phil Starr]

[quote name='T-Bay' timestamp='1486106132' post='3229220']
Thanks for all the replies, I am more than happy to keep practising hard but from reading the replies above it does seem I am probably playing 'too hard' so will try the advice and see how it goes.
[/quote]

I wonder what you mean by "practising hard". You say you are new to bass and I wonder if you might be over-practising or doing the wrong practice. When I used to run, or train for cricket, it wasn't difficult to go from nothing to very heavy training/running, over doing it and then suffering after. The trick was to have light training days and to vary your training schedule. Similarly it might be worth mixing up your practice schedule.

Cramps are caused by electrolyte (calcium, potassium, sodium and magnesium ions) disturbances and the accumulation of lactic acid unless you have some underlying medical condition, which is less likely. In the end this is about blood supply. As well as building up muscle training improves the blood supply to the parts that are being exercised increasing the supply of food and oxygen and removing waste.

Try this little test, clench and unclench your hand as quickly as you can for 30sec with your hand down by your side. Rest and then try the same thing with your hand held high above your head. You should feel the same 'cramp' as you do playing bass. In this case it is entirely down to accumulation of lactic acid due to blood flowing downhill easier than it does uphill.

Developing stamina is a slow process and it will just come, even now if I have a couple of weeks with little practice I lose stamina, when the band are gigging regularly it comes back. It takes time to grow and develop new blood vessels. It may be worth massaging your forearm where most of the muscles that operate your fingers are which will push fluid back into your bloodstream and remove some of the lactic acid. Just relaxing will help too as will a proper posture and well adjusted guitar strap, loose muscles will help your blood flow.

[xgsjx]

I told the Mrs that I needed to strengthen my fingering technique. She suggested a Gripmaster.

[chris_b]

Turn the amp up, take the strings down, play lightly, relax every muscle in your body and breath deeply and regularly. Adopt this style for all songs you play and practise the difficult songs until you can play them with no effort.

Start by playing the numbers slower, at a speed you can manage and speed them up. Get to the point where you can easily play these numbers at a faster speed than you need, then you will be playing them well when you get into the right tempo.

If you can't make any of this work get a few lessons to point you in the right direction.

[Coilte]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1486114451' post='3229288']
I told the Mrs that I needed to strengthen my fingering technique. She suggested a Gripmaster.
[/quote]

Grip masters are useless from a bass playing aspect. They develop grip strength which is the last thing a bass player needs. The idea is to have both hands as relaxed as possible. This is not possible when gripping. Besides, it's not a question of strength... ( we have enough in our fingers from an early age, to fret a string)... but as the OP correctly states...stamina and agility.

OP...as you are a fairly new player, it might help to make sure your technique is good..and just as important ...[b]safe. [/b]


The fact you mention getting cramp in your thumb, tells me you might be pressing down too hard when you fret. As an exercise, try fretting [u]without [/u]the thumb, just to see how little pressure is required.

IMO the best way to build up stamina is to play for short periods...[u]but play often. [/u] For speed, start slow, and gradually build up the tempo.


Here are two clips (left and right hand) on safe technique which are worth a look :

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRkSsapYYsA"]https://www.youtube....h?v=VRkSsapYYsA[/url]

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIYuqTsUlyM"]https://www.youtube....h?v=uIYuqTsUlyM[/url]

Edited February 3, 2017 by Coilte

[Funky Dunky]

I have come to realise that - for me, at least - the only way to make it through a long practice or a jam is to really back off with my touch and be absolutely relaxed. As soon as I start to dig in for any length of time, I just tense up, my muscles start to fatigue and it's donesville. I have always been prone to tensing up and gripping the bass too tight, fretting too hard, digging in too hard with my right hand, and my hands just cramp up, speed goes out the window completely, I fall behind the beat a fraction......so I have worked hard on lightening up my touch, I'm going to start using lighter strings and playing more relaxed altogether.

Initially, I struggled to control the instrument and I really felt that digging in was both important and FUN, but in order combat the fatigue, I would try to back off and just tickle the strings. Unfortunately, it didn't feel right in the beginning and I felt I had no control, but as I've spent more time playing the instrument, my touch and control have improved to the point when I can effectively ramp my attack up or down and retain the control I need. I should also add that I've been playing four years, and this is a fairly recent development.

[T-Bay]

Just to clarify, I am getting the cramp in my right thumb, not the fretting hand. I am sure it is a combination of technique and practice which is why I asked the question of the collective experience on here. I practice every day for 30-45 minutes usually and that is a mix of little warm ups, a few favourite riffs, maybe a new section here and there and a few run through a of tracks on our set. I have had a quick session and tried to analyse my playing a bit and I am using the correct section of my fingers as the hard skin isn't extending onto the pads but I do think I am 'overplaying' or playing too hard however you want to term it. It's not a conscious thing I just get into the songs and it seems to happen. I think a mixture or more exercise and really making a conscious effort on keeping the touch light will help a lot. It doesn't help that I have an aggressive form of arthritis so my fingers and thumbs don't necessarily moves as freely as they should, but that isn't going to stop me. There is always a way around these things. I will have a restful weekend as my amp blew its fuse last night and doesn't want to play so I may do a bit of acoustic practice.

Thanks for all the suggestions.

[Norris]

Also stretch and warm up before a session. Stretching out your tendons helps a lot

[Norris]

Ah. Just saw your latest reply. I assume that you are anchoring with your thumb when plucking. Try to ease up on that. Maybe have a look at floating thumb technique - even if you don't adopt it you will realise that you don't need to anchor so firmly. It's a reference point, not the support for your whole arm

[DrBike]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1486114451' post='3229288']
I told the Mrs that I needed to strengthen my fingering technique. She suggested a Gripmaster.
[/quote]
I so thought that this was going to go in a different direction ... IGMC

[T-Bay]

[quote name='DrBike' timestamp='1486139431' post='3229595']

I so thought that this was going to go in a different direction ... IGMC
[/quote]
I sure as hell wasnt going to google 'improve my fingering technique' that's for sure!

[Coilte]

[quote name='Norris' timestamp='1486139261' post='3229590']
Ah. Just saw your latest reply. I assume that you are anchoring with your thumb when plucking. Try to ease up on that. Maybe have a look at floating thumb technique - even if you don't adopt it you will realise that you don't need to anchor so firmly. It's a reference point, not the support for your whole arm
[/quote]

+1 to the above.



OP, more than likely, you are pressing too hard with the thumb on the pick up when plucking. When you use the pick up as an anchor, it automatically puts a bend in the wrist. This can cause injury problems at a later time (CTS for example).

As mentioned by Norris, the Floating Thumb technique is great for both having the wrist straight, and for muting unwanted harmonics.

Here is a clip :

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPVMBPmrblU"]https://www.youtube....h?v=PPVMBPmrblU[/url]

Edited February 3, 2017 by Coilte

[T-Bay]

I have just had a practice session and I am now sure the issue is playing too hard. The borrowed practice amp sounds awful but I cranked it up a bit and played much more softly than usual. Both of the tracks that were causing me most hassle were got through well. One I have struggled to even get to the end of before and the other has always resulted in pain. Tonight the harder one gave a mild bit of cramp right at the very end. I then went back and played much more aggressively as I normally do and guess what? Yup, pain was back in no time.

I also watched the link and tried the floating thumb technique and found it easier than I expected, not sure if it's for me yet, I need to play about with it more and see how it gets on.

Thanks again for all the help and suggestions.

[Coilte]

[quote name='T-Bay' timestamp='1486148257' post='3229700']
I have just had a practice session and I am now sure the issue is playing too hard. The borrowed practice amp sounds awful but I cranked it up a bit and played much more softly than usual. Both of the tracks that were causing me most hassle were got through well. One I have struggled to even get to the end of before and the other has always resulted in pain. Tonight the harder one gave a mild bit of cramp right at the very end. I then went back and played much more aggressively as I normally do and guess what? Yup, pain was back in no time.

I also watched the link and tried the floating thumb technique and found it easier than I expected, not sure if it's for me yet, I need to play about with it more and see how it gets on.

Thanks again for all the help and suggestions.
[/quote]


Glad you seem to have found the source of your problems.

As for the "Floating Thumb"... I'd give it at least two months of persevering, before coming to any definitive decisions either way on it.

[Phil Starr]

Wish I'd started with floating thumb, just for the string damping. One day soon I'm going to have to start to retrain myself to use it but it's always difficult to break years of muscle memory/bad habits. Given your early stages I think going for this is good advice.