Good at playing, rubbish at selling ourselves

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1486194498' post='3229919']
Selling the band can be done by any one person who's switched on and has the band's interests at heart. It makes sense to have someone who is "equipped".

Set someone up with a folder or tablet that has some images of the band. Some "studio" posed ones would be ok, but you need some that look like the band is playing a gig. After all, you're wanting the guy to take a risk. Their fear is that you look at mess and sound cr@p. So why not hand out CDs as well.

The person selling you needs to come across as professional and dependable too. Remember that people don't like to take a risk so you need to make him feel comfortable. A switched-on non-employed wife of the band would be great. But they need to come across as confident and passionate about your performance.
[/quote]

Thanks. You seem to be in support of a human presence rather than a sole reliance on Internet material.

[Grangur]

[quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1486195429' post='3229923']
Thanks. You seem to be in support of a human presence rather than a sole reliance on Internet material.
[/quote]

"People buy people first". It's a phrase we use in selling. You need to get the guy to like "you" as people. He won't buy into a Web page.

When applying for jobs ever wondered how many CVs attachments in emails never get opened, simply because the covering letter message didn't excited them?

Now, you were actually THERE... You can lead him through it and you might get the job.

As a band you can have a fantastic Web presence. You can have loads of 'likes' and testimonials. But if the customer is too busy loading in the beer and cleaning tables to go online then how good is that?

Now if your drummer's pretty girlfriend was standing in front of him with a tablet of pictures and a smile on her face, would he notice?
Can he completely ignore her?

Edited February 4, 2017 by Grangur

[mep]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1486196949' post='3229931']


"People buy people first". It's a phrase we use in selling. You need to get the guy to like "you" as people. He won't buy into a Web page.

When applying for jobs ever wondered how many CVs attachments in emails never get opened, simply because the covering letter message didn't excited them?

Now, you were actually THERE... You can lead him through it and you might get the job.

As a band you can have a fantastic Web presence. You can have loads of 'likes' and testimonials. But if the customer is too busy loading in the beer and cleaning tables to go online then how good is that?

Now if your drummer's pretty girlfriend was standing in front of him with a tablet of pictures and a smile on her face, would he notice?
Can he completely ignore her?
[/quote]

Drummers girlfriend! Didn't know they had one.

At the risk of sounding sexist, and I have heard tof this happening, if your band has a female singer you will get more gigs. Although I put this down to sexist mature of the landlord.

[TrevorR]

All great advice and I'd totally endorse Grangur's advice. People, professional, pleasant. And pretty, if you can bring the drummer's gf along probably won't hurt.

No one has said it because it's so obvious so I'll say it anyway... you say you don't have a following. If you get that first, foot in the door gig yes you do and yes you must. That's the time to badger all your family, friends, workmates, neighbours to come along and support you. If the landlord sees loads of new faces in the bar and his takings are up, even if only marginally, then it all helps. Prioritise that first gig and probably the second one too. Beg, cajole, sell it to them if necessary. It'll only be a few and far between to start with so don't feel you're imposing too much. Plus they get a nice night out, a drink and get to see Cousin Nick playing his bass/take the mickey out of you a work on Monday about you being the next Bonio etc... You get a rent-a-crowd. Win-win

[Japhet]

Website is crucial in my opinion. If it isn't good enough get it sorted quickly. Live recordings, video clips, Youtube links, testimonials, still photos, bits about band members, equipment you use etc, can all make the thing interesting. Sort out your own publicity stuff as well with posters and business cards so that you leave something there when you visit a potential venue.

[Grangur]

[quote name='Japhet' timestamp='1486199886' post='3229957']
Website is crucial in my opinion. If it isn't good enough get it sorted quickly. Live recordings, video clips, Youtube links, testimonials, still photos, bits about band members, equipment you use etc, can all make the thing interesting. Sort out your own publicity stuff as well with posters and business cards so that you leave something there when you visit a potential venue.
[/quote]
You're right, it's right to have all the Web page stuff in place. Get the cards printed, 3-fold leaflets, or something like that; something the "sales rep" can hand out anduring leave with the management.

Set a target date to "launch" the band. Get it all ready by that date. Then get out there and knock on doors. Get a face in front of the people who can book you. Always come away from a meeting with an agreed time for you to go back.

And keep a selling diary; if they say "were not look good to book more until April", then agree to go back in April, bur actually go back in 3rd week of March.

[PaulWarning]

as said before you need somebody whose good at and enjoys talking to people, our singer (no surprise there) is very good at talking (usually about himself) but he knows loads of people and goes round pubs chatting to landlords and stuff and loves going to gigs, in fact I originally asked him to join the band, not because he was a decent singer (I didn't know at the time) but I knew he'd get us gigs.I occasionally have a go but I'm not a natural salesman and soon get disheartened.

[miles'tone]

The girlfriends of most drummers I've played with have all been absolutely headers.

[blue]

[quote name='bubinga5' timestamp='1486178336' post='3229894']
Out of interest Blue. Are there not bars, clubs. that people just listen to music. I mean like Ronnie Scotts in the US, or the Jazz cafe in London. Of course there are always alcohol sales, but the music and venues I've ever been to the crowd are there for the music. Does it depend on how big the band are.?
[/quote]

Yes, we have clubs like Ronnie Scott's right in Milwaukee, for example Shank Hall. Not sure why they call it a "Hall"it's a club actually a small bar. They primarily book headliners. I saw Stanley Clark there. They don't book book local bar bands.Most shows have ticket prices between $35.00- $50.00.

Blue

Edited February 4, 2017 by blue

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1486224698' post='3230168']
Yes, we have clubs like Ronnie Scott's right in Milwaukee, for example Shank Hall. Not sure why they call it a "Hall"it's a club actually a small bar. They primarily book headliners. I saw Stanley Clark there. They don't book book local bar bands.Most shows have ticket prices between $35.00- $50.00.

Blue
[/quote]

Arnold's diner used to get some good acts too. I saw Weezer play there AND they were singing about Buddy Holly.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kemivUKb4f4[/media]

Edited February 4, 2017 by SpondonBassed

[Norris]

Also a lot of landlords will be filling their 2017 diaries right now, so don't hang about and get out there pedaling

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='Norris' timestamp='1486241141' post='3230339']
Also a lot of landlords will be filling their 2017 diaries right now, so don't hang about and get out there [u][b]pedaling[/b][/u]
[/quote]

Are you trying to give me [i]more[/i] GAS?

[Norris]

[quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1486243666' post='3230364']
Are you trying to give me [i]more[/i] GAS?
[/quote]

Oops! Wrong spelling doh!

[leschirons]

What's the name of the band? For all we know, you're called the Puppy killers.

[Nicko]

Here's a link to the website. Constructive criticism welcome.

[url="https://www.fireflyrock.com/"]https://www.fireflyrock.com/[/url]

[cheddatom]

[quote name='Nicko' timestamp='1486569288' post='3232876']
Here's a link to the website. Constructive criticism welcome.

[url="https://www.fireflyrock.com/"]https://www.fireflyrock.com/[/url]
[/quote]

The website is good, it's got all the right content. The gigs page with one gig might be counter productive. I don't think the image of the band works. I realise a lot of covers bands just wear random t-shirts and jeans/shorts but if you're struggling to get gigs, sharpening up the image would probably help.

I watched the video for "are you gonna go my way" because it's the only one of the 3 I can stand (sorry). At the very start, the singer introduces the song, but doesn't seem very confident. After it's kicked in, everything seems good, but the sound quality is not great. It sounds like one side of a stereo mic was pushed against a cushion or something?

So I would sharpen up the image, get an unpaid gig somewhere (anywhere), get a mate with a go pro to film it, and give the front man some coke.

[ambient]

Some people are brilliant at selling bands and getting gigs.

I'm fine if it's just emailing places, I'd personally find going in to places and talking quite a scary proposition.

A friend on mine is really excellent, he'll go in to any potential venue and talk to people for ages. I think sometimes they'll book whatever band he's selling just to get rid of him .

[dmccombe7]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1486129700' post='3229453']
I'm a professional salesman, done it for many years. Steve is right to some degree. You need someone to go out and meet the landlords or club managers etc but it needs to be the right person. Steve says "gobby", what you actually need is someone with the confidence, to do the meetings with a stranger, not necessarily "gobby".

It's very easy to fall into the trap of going round loads of places and spout out a practiced script of:

"Hello, I'm Wayne, I'm in a covers band, we play AC/DC, Stones, etc etc, etc, We're better than most others round her and we're getting started, when do you have a night free that we can do a night for you?... pause for breath."

The problem with this is Wayne, bless him, hasn't asked any questions. A good salesman listens more than speaks.

(God gave you 1 mouth and 2 ears, and there's a reason for this. You don't learn as much through talking.)

Go into see the manager:

[b]Wayne: [/b]Hi I'm Wayne, I'm with XYZ Band, we're just getting started in the area, we think we're good, but I wonder, can you help me please if you have 5 mins?
(Folk are naturally helpful, they don't think they want to be sold to, but they like to help)

[b]Manger:[/b] No, I'm up to my neck in it.

[b]Wayne[/b]: OK I can appreciate that, when would be a good time? - Get an appointment.

Or

[b]Manager[/b]: Yeah, sure. What can I do?

[b]Wayne[/b]; Well I know there are a number of bands about and I see you do live music. If you were looking for a new band, what would you like to see in that band? What sort of music?

[b]Manager[/b]: - Now he tells you what you need to know.

[b]Wayne[/b]: OK, cool. Just out of interest, of the bands you have here, mentioning no names, are there anythings they do, or don't do that you like, or don't like?
I guess, what I'm really asking is what is it in a band that, for you makes the whole deal work well for you and The Kings Arms?

[b]Manager[/b]: - Now he tells you more of what you need to know.

[b]Wayne[/b]: Cool, That's really helpful. Many thanks. We're a band that does that kind if music, and we can make sure we don't get-loaded / $h@gg the bar staff / play too loud, as we have our own limiter etc.. delete as appropriate. If we were able to deliver what you want, when would your next available night be?

[b]Manager[/b]: well we're now booking for April 2026....

[b]Wayne[/b]; Cool, we should be ready about then, can I give you some info, with our web page/ Farcebook / Lemonrock / Soundcloud... ?

Hopefully that should work better than spouting and getting nowhere. Good luck
[/quote]


Could you be our Manager
Excellent reply.

Dave

[Grangur]

[quote name='dmccombe7' timestamp='1486572958' post='3232921']
Could you be our Manager
Excellent reply.

Dave
[/quote]
You're sounding more like my Mrs every day..

Mrs G has said I should get involved in management for a band.

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1486571290' post='3232895']
The website is good, it's got all the right content. The gigs page with one gig might be counter productive. I don't think the image of the band works. I realise a lot of covers bands just wear random t-shirts and jeans/shorts but if you're struggling to get gigs, sharpening up the image would probably help.

I watched the video for "are you gonna go my way" because it's the only one of the 3 I can stand (sorry). At the very start, the singer introduces the song, but doesn't seem very confident. After it's kicked in, everything seems good, but the sound quality is not great. It sounds like one side of a stereo mic was pushed against a cushion or something?

So I would sharpen up the image, get an unpaid gig somewhere (anywhere), get a mate with a go pro to film it, and give the front man some coke.
[/quote]yep, I hate it when a band looks like they've just walked off the street. Jeans and T shirts is a poor effort IMO of course, especially from a front man

[Marty Forrer]

The point is.... there is no point (of difference). Not trying to be an a**e, but there are five trillion bands like you out there. You need to stand out from the mob. A point of difference. Why would a venue manager hire you? Because you're good? So are many others. You need one of the following to stand out:
* A smokin' hot female singer(s)
* A different genre? I played latino rock for five years. We had more work than we could handle.
* A different slant on your covers? Devo? B52s?
* I currently have my own covers band and we have five gigs booked in the next fortnight. Why? Because there is no other band like us in our area. Why? Because when I formed it I looked at the market and realised there was a gap. So I deliberately chose the material and the appropriate musicians to fill that gap.

These suggestions will obviously not all work for you, they are just food for thought. Having a point of difference is crucial, in my opinion. Without it you are just another anonymous face in the crowd. Google a band called Mad Jack and the Hatters. Why do you think they stand out from all the other bands of their genre? Yes, I know it's sexist, but that's the way things are in the real world.

[Nicko]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1486580856' post='3233025']
yep, I hate it when a band looks like they've just walked off the street. Jeans and T shirts is a poor effort IMO of course, especially from a front man
[/quote]

So what is appropriate for a band paying pubs? I appreciate a function band will have a more defined/coordinated look, but wouldn't stage gear seem a bit OTT for playing the Dog and Duck?

[Nicko]

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1486571290' post='3232895']
The website is good, it's got all the right content. The gigs page with one gig might be counter productive. I don't think the image of the band works. I realise a lot of covers bands just wear random t-shirts and jeans/shorts but if you're struggling to get gigs, sharpening up the image would probably help.

I watched the video for "are you gonna go my way" because it's the only one of the 3 I can stand (sorry). At the very start, the singer introduces the song, but doesn't seem very confident. After it's kicked in, everything seems good, but the sound quality is not great. It sounds like one side of a stereo mic was pushed against a cushion or something?

So I would sharpen up the image, get an unpaid gig somewhere (anywhere), get a mate with a go pro to film it, and give the front man some coke.
[/quote]

We are trying to get some better recordings/video but its chicken and egg of course. We go pro'd the whole of the last gig and none of the footage was usable (too grainy). I've posted elsewhere about performance and already had a word with the band about energy on stage.

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='Nicko' timestamp='1486640439' post='3233425']
So what is appropriate for a band paying pubs? I appreciate a function band will have a more defined/coordinated look, but wouldn't stage gear seem a bit OTT for playing the Dog and Duck?
[/quote]depends what you mean by stage gear, look at my avatar, that's what I wear every gig, the rest of the band look like this[attachment=237807:Hairy Dog 1.12.16.jpg]
all the successful bands in my area have a 'look' to go with the type of music they play and stick roughly to a certain genre, (Mod, Ska, (very popular is Ska) Heavy Rock etc) remember you can't please all the people all the time, so just try and please some of the people all the time

[TimR]

Ok. I looked at the website and went straight for the photos.

Being brutally honest with you and I think you have to be ready to take some heavy criticism here if you want to move on.

The photos are completely underwhelming.

The band are all fretboard gazing. The drummer is looking at the floor. He doesn't need to stare into the lens but he at least needs to get some eye contact with the audience, even if there was no one in the pub, he should have been pretending.

Get some lighting. Every pub band has lights. They're cheap, even really cheap look better than nothing. End of.

It doesn't matter what the band sounds like, the overwhelming majority of the audience and landlords will be consuming with their eyes.

I wouldn't book your band on the strength of the photos and didn't look any further into your website. Sorry but if that is an indication of what you look like when you're playing, you're just not selling the music.

Stand up straight, pose, smile, greet the audience.

I would hire a rehearsal room, borrow some lights and play to an invisible audience while miming to a backing track and get someone who knows how to take photos to takes some good ones.

Sorry if that's a bit harsh and negative.

We don't have a website, there's only a few photos on our Facebook. There are some other links in the visitors posts to two photographers.
https://m.facebook.com/archerts/

.

Edited February 9, 2017 by TimR