Finished Pics! Pete's Piccolo Bass

[Andyjr1515]

Hi again

I alluded to this one before Christmas. I generally tackle full builds one at a time and this one has been gathering dust while I've been finishing off Nic's Mouradian-style 4-string.

It's for Pete again...yes - our old-git's-band's bassist.

I can only think it's some kind of Ponzi pyramid selling scam! Surely he can't need or want that many of my builds???

Anyway, within weeks of me finishing his EB-3ish build last year, he was pressing me for a piccolo bass build.

We spent a long time exploring exactly what he meant by a piccolo bass (there are, as we discussed in the previous thread, a number of opinions of what constitutes one )

In the end, I crystallised what he actually wants.

It's basically a 4 string electric guitar

If you remember, this is the shape I've come up with:



Going to have:[list]
[*]a tear-drop 'f' hole with a routed chamber in the rear upper bout.
[*]24 to 25" (or something in that general range) scale fanned fretted
[*]The above bookmatched walnut top, left natural
[*]Mahogany back
[*]Through neck, possibly maple, with central dark centre splice (I do like how Nic's Mouradian and Tom's African basses look in that respect)
[*]Not sure yet about the top carve. Maybe just a smooth, shallow curve
[*]Individual bridge anchors (pretty essential with the fan fretting)
[*]4 string - EADG at electric guitar pitch (ie 1 octave higher than a bass)
[*]Probably a conventional pickup of some sort (still to be determined) but set well forward, jazz-style.
[/list]
The fretboard - which I'm sure is going to be a pig to do - is going to use this piece of snakewood I've been saving for the right project:

Edited March 13, 2017 by Andyjr1515

[Oopsdabassist]

Ye gods, it didn't take you long did it! .......luckily for us!

Can't wait to see where this goes

[Andyjr1515]

[quote name='Oopsdabassist' timestamp='1486572694' post='3232919']
Ye gods, it didn't take you long did it! .......luckily for us!

Can't wait to see where this goes
[/quote]
Well, Pete's been pushing me throughout the Mouradian build so I thought I'd better relent

By the way - what's the engine on your avatar? A Merlin?

[Oopsdabassist]

Yup, well spotted, its on a Dolley so you can run it up and test it without it being mounted in a plane, I was lucky enough to fire it up and give it some wellie as part of a birthday treat visit to Sywell Aerodrome last year...a great day out and I got to sit in a working Mark VIII Spitfire and chat with the pilot, a red arrow display chappie. I have some video of same if I can work out how to post it!

[Andyjr1515]

[quote name='Oopsdabassist' timestamp='1486575266' post='3232954']
Yup, well spotted, its on a Dolley so you can run it up and test it without it being mounted in a plane, I was lucky enough to fire it up and give it some wellie as part of a birthday treat visit to Sywell Aerodrome last year...a great day out and I got to sit in a working Mark VIII Spitfire and chat with the pilot, a red arrow display chappie. I have some video of same if I can work out how to post it!
[/quote]
Fantastic

[Oopsdabassist]

Hope this works

<embed width="600" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullscreen="true" allowNetworking="all" wmode="transparent" src="http://static.photobucket.com/player.swf" flashvars="file=http%3A%2F%2Fvid1122.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl527%2FMkuk0%2FP1020989_zpsptusatob.mp4&title=">



<embed width="600" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullscreen="true" allowNetworking="all" wmode="transparent" src="http://static.photobucket.com/player.swf" flashvars="file=http%3A%2F%2Fvid1122.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl527%2FMkuk0%2FP1020990_zpsj87dnqa7.mp4&title=">

[Andyjr1515]

[quote name='Oopsdabassist' timestamp='1486579522' post='3233009']
Hope this works

<embed width="600" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullscreen="true" allowNetworking="all" wmode="transparent" src="http://static.photobucket.com/player.swf" flashvars="file=http%3A%2F%2Fvid1122.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl527%2FMkuk0%2FP1020989_zpsptusatob.mp4&title=">



<embed width="600" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullscreen="true" allowNetworking="all" wmode="transparent" src="http://static.photobucket.com/player.swf" flashvars="file=http%3A%2F%2Fvid1122.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl527%2FMkuk0%2FP1020990_zpsj87dnqa7.mp4&title=">
[/quote]

No it didn't When I've got videos, I just download them onto Youtube and send people the link.

[BigRedX]

Regarding the pickup, IME what you choose to fit will very much depend on how the owner of the bass is intending to play it and what sort of amp he is going to be putting it through. My Manne piccolo bass had guitar hum buckers with rails rather than pole-pieces and IMO they were somewhat on the "hot" side for playing through my bass rig and getting a bass-type tone out of.

As a 4-string guitar through my H&K Tube 50 guitar amp it sounded lovely, but I originally bought it so that I could do faux 8-string bass parts on recordings which would have weird things happening in them like the octave part not always exactly tracking the bass strings, so I was constantly fighting against the "guitar" tone of the pickups and the fact that they really wanted to be driving some pre-amp valves hard.

[Oopsdabassist]

Bugger


[url="http://vid1122.photobucket.com/albums/l527/Mkuk0/P1020990_zpsj87dnqa7.mp4"]http://vid1122.photo...zpsj87dnqa7.mp4[/url]

[url="http://vid1122.photobucket.com/albums/l527/Mkuk0/P1020989_zpsptusatob.mp4"]http://vid1122.photo...zpsptusatob.mp4[/url]

No..wait! try this

Edited February 8, 2017 by Oopsdabassist

[Andyjr1515]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1486590344' post='3233147']
Regarding the pickup, IME what you choose to fit will very much depend on how the owner of the bass is intending to play it and what sort of amp he is going to be putting it through. My Manne piccolo bass had guitar hum buckers with rails rather than pole-pieces and IMO they were somewhat on the "hot" side for playing through my bass rig and getting a bass-type tone out of.

As a 4-string guitar through my H&amp;K Tube 50 guitar amp it sounded lovely, but I originally bought it so that I could do faux 8-string bass parts on recordings which would have weird things happening in them like the octave part not always exactly tracking the bass strings, so I was constantly fighting against the "guitar" tone of the pickups and the fact that they really wanted to be driving some pre-amp valves hard.
[/quote]
Now that is very interesting . I have been looking at the SD cool rails neck pickup. A number of jazz players seem to rate them and it would fit with the fact that my string spacing at the pickup is likely to be non-standard.

What rails did you try?

I'm also looking to extend the bass strings to 26" and also fit flat wounds, again heading down the Jazz tone rout.

It's an interesting project already

[Andyjr1515]

[quote name='Oopsdabassist' timestamp='1486592254' post='3233172']
Bugger


[url="http://vid1122.photobucket.com/albums/l527/Mkuk0/P1020990_zpsj87dnqa7.mp4"]http://vid1122.photo...zpsj87dnqa7.mp4[/url]

[url="http://vid1122.photobucket.com/albums/l527/Mkuk0/P1020989_zpsptusatob.mp4"]http://vid1122.photo...zpsptusatob.mp4[/url]

No..wait! try this
[/quote]
Yes - that works . Wonderful!

I got to have a high speed taxi run in the tail gunner seat of a Lancaster a couple of years ago. Up there with the best experiences ever! I've got a YouTube clip somewhere - I'll post it if I can find it.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Andyjr1515' timestamp='1486593386' post='3233191']
Now that is very interesting . I have been looking at the SD cool rails neck pickup. A number of jazz players seem to rate them and it would fit with the fact that my string spacing at the pickup is likely to be non-standard.

What rails did you try?

I'm also looking to extend the bass strings to 26" and also fit flat wounds, again heading down the Jazz tone rout.

It's an interesting project already
[/quote]

I don't know what the pickups were. Manne make their own rails picks, but the ones on my bass didn't look like any of the current models.

Hopefully the SD Cool Rails will have a lower output and a less "rock guitar" tone that the ones on my bass had. I would suggest getting something that can be wired in series and parallel - I think mine would have benefitted from a parallel setting.

[Andyjr1515]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1486596551' post='3233222']


I don't know what the pickups were. Manne make their own rails picks, but the ones on my bass didn't look like any of the current models.

Hopefully the SD Cool Rails will have a lower output and a less "rock guitar" tone that the ones on my bass had. I would suggest getting something that can be wired in series and parallel - I think mine would have benefitted from a parallel setting.
[/quote]
Yes - the Cool Rails are relatively low output with a mids bias.

[Andyjr1515]

OK - first bit of wood is cut

I tell you what - working on this size is SOOOO much easier than a full-size bass. It feels like a toy!

[Oopsdabassist]

[quote name='Andyjr1515' timestamp='1486593727' post='3233193']
Yes - that works . Wonderful!

I got to have a high speed taxi run in the tail gunner seat of a Lancaster a couple of years ago. Up there with the best experiences ever! I've got a YouTube clip somewhere - I'll post it if I can find it.
[/quote]

Maybe we should start a separate thread..this feels like a hijack!!

[rOB]

Another build to watch develop. Excellent.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Andyjr1515' timestamp='1486598968' post='3233246']
Yes - the Cool Rails are relatively low output with a mids bias.
[/quote]

Can you post a link for the pickup you are intending to use? All the SD Cool Rails I can find say they have a mid-scoop which IMO isn't that useful on a bass.

BTW that top looks fantastic!

Edited February 10, 2017 by BigRedX

[Andyjr1515]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1486744244' post='3234327']


Can you post a link for the pickup you are intending to use? All the SD Cool Rails I can find say they have a mid-scoop which IMO isn't that useful on a bass.

BTW that top looks fantastic!
[/quote]
Thanks!

Ref the pickup, yes, the cool rails is heavily mid-scooped. The reason it's a contender, remembering that this is a guitar scale and pitch, is that, delving into the dark forums of the jazz guitar world, the cool rails comes out frequently as a very strong contender for the neck position in the standard 'volume high, tone at 2 or 3' settings of the Jazz fraternity, especially when matched with flatwound Jazz strings. Rails might be useful too because the string spacing will be 'unconventional'.

I haven't ordered any yet but they are definitely in the possibles list...

[Andyjr1515]

Got some time yesterday evening and this afternoon to start the build proper.

The neck wood arrived from David Dyke - some wonderfully grained plain maple and a centre mahogany splice.

Before I cut that, I needed to work out where the body was going to sit in relation to the neck. I've firmed up on a 26" to 25" multi-scale at 24 frets. This is basically how it will fit:



I will make one adjustment - this version has the 'vertical' fret at the 12th fret and this makes the angle at the nut quite marked. Because I have plenty of space at the bridge end (Black Dog individual bridges) I will probably bias the steeper angles towards the bridge and have the angle at the nut less acute.

Having worked out the basic positions, I was able to cut the side profiles of the neck splices. Here are basically the components:




...and it's NEVER too early to do a mock-up!



Now that's what I call wings! I'm sure Pete will get used to them!

The ebony faceplate was just because I had it there handy. I haven't decided out yet whether I go faceplate or not, and if so, what wood. I'll see what it looks like when the fretboard and neck have been slimmed, etc..

[sblueplanet]

Exciting stuff. Would a piezo work on a bass like this?

[HowieBass]

Just when I thought I'd run out of builds to salivate over...

[Andyjr1515]

[quote name='sblueplanet' timestamp='1487355979' post='3239306']
Exciting stuff. Would a piezo work on a bass like this?
[/quote]
I did consider it...but in the end, I'm just not convinced about piezos in their present stage of development.

Mixed with a magnetic pickup they are stupendous but, and maybe this is just me, by themselves they always seem just a tad disappointing. Am I the only one who thinks that?

[Dazed]

Oh I don't know, Rob Allen, Rick Turner, Bolin and a few others have all done ok with piezos.

[Andyjr1515]

[quote name='Dazed' timestamp='1487369952' post='3239433']
Oh I don't know, Rob Allen, Rick Turner, Bolin and a few others have all done ok with piezos.
[/quote]
At bass pitch, I may well be quite incorrect (not an unusual situation ).

However, this will be tuned at guitar pitch. I have three 6 string electrics with piezos - two with ghost systems and one an acoustic shadow system, and all three are limited on piezo only. I found the same with a Carvin hybrid semi acoustic I had for a while. On the other hand, adding the piezo blended with the other pickups is great. This piccolo is probably a bit small to try to fit both into.

I'm probably wrong here too....

Edited February 18, 2017 by Andyjr1515

[Andyjr1515]

I ran the mahogany sections through the thicknesser to get rid of the saw chatter and then cut the sections, slightly oversize:



With these kinds of top, I usually use the top as the routing template for the mahogany sections underneath once they are glued up and in place

The next task is probably the fretboard. I build these things slightly unconventionally and will be cutting a notch in the neck so the wings and body section of the neck become the flat surface for the top to be glued onto. However, the notch will be angled slightly to accommodate the neck angle, and the neck angle needed depends on the height of the fretted fretboard...

One of these days I will build conventionally...I'm sure it must be more straightforward...