Marc S Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) [quote name='LewisK1975' timestamp='1487586203' post='3240853'] I think the cars analogy is way off guys..... [/quote] Indeed, the only analogy that really bears up re cars and guitars is choice of colour / finish To those who think otherwise, I await your photos of cleaning your bass or guitar in the carwash..... or reports of how often you take your guitar or bass out in the rain / hail / snow..... I had resisted replying to this thread before, but have decided to chip in. I wasn't previously a fan of reliced / roadworn instruments (but I didn't particularly dislike them either) until I bought my Fender Roadworn Jazz. Having owned several Fenders (and Jazzes) over the years - this was the one that made me fall in love with Fenders again - to all critics of them, I'd say give one a try! They are superb. So good I got myself a Roadworn P and a Flea sig too. They are all brilliant instruments. But you cannot overstate the relaxed feeling you get from playing a reliced instrument - I've gigged mint and great condition instruments and hated getting its' first "ding" or scratch. Even the fear of damage to a mint instrument makes me paranoid. However, Gigging with something that doesn't matter whether you get a scratch or dent is so liberating. As I said, finish is up to the instrument owner / buyer - if you don't like reliced fair enough, that's simply your choice. Moreover, I'd suggest the title of the thread should be "Is anybody getting bored of people telling everyone why they don't like roadworn instruments?" or perhaps "Is anybody getting bored of people telling them they don't like other peoples choices, and why it's wrong for you to like something I don't?" Edited February 20, 2017 by Marc S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LewisK1975 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 [quote name='Marc S' timestamp='1487589057' post='3240891'] Indeed, the only analogy that really bears up re cars and guitars is choice of colour / finish To those who think otherwise, I await your photos of cleaning your bass or guitar in the carwash..... or reports of how often you take your guitar or bass out in the rain / hail / snow..... I had resisted replying to this thread before, but have decided to chip in. I wasn't previously a fan of reliced / roadworn instruments (but I didn't particularly dislike them either) until I bought my Fender Roadworn Jazz. Having owned several Fenders (and Jazzes) over the years - this was the one that made me fall in love with Fenders again - to all critics of them, I'd say give one a try! They are superb. So good I got myself a Roadworn P and a Flea sig too. They are all brilliant instruments. But you cannot overstate the relaxed feeling you get from playing a reliced instrument - I've gigged mint and great condition instruments and hated getting its' first "ding" or scratch. Even the fear of damage to a mint instrument makes me paranoid. However, Gigging with something that doesn't matter whether you get a scratch or dent is so liberating. As I said, finish is up to the instrument owner / buyer - if you don't like reliced fair enough, that's simply your choice. Moreover, I'd suggest the title of the thread should be "Is anybody getting bored of people telling everyone why they don't like roadworn instruments?" or perhaps "Is anybody getting bored of people telling them they don't like other peoples choices, and why it's wrong for you to like something I don't?" [/quote] +100000000, Case closed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jus Lukin Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) - Edited February 28, 2022 by Jus Lukin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Obviously not many fans of historic race cars here then? They slot into the analogy perfectly, old and genuine complete with the battle scars fetch the most then there are people buying up standard mk1 and 2 escorts and minis just to relic them into 'recreation' or 'homage' race cars, they fetch huge money and business is booming making brand new replica parts, SU carburettors have just released a fuel injection system hidden inside old fashion SU carbs for example. There is a saying in the classic cars world, "of the 30'000 Lotus Cortinas built only 40'000 are still on the road", is that analogy not exactly the same as comparing pre CBS era fenders and new relic versions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LewisK1975 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1487597223' post='3241011'] Obviously not many fans of historic race cars here then? They slot into the analogy perfectly, old and genuine complete with the battle scars fetch the most then there are people buying up standard mk1 and 2 escorts and minis just to relic them into 'recreation' or 'homage' race cars, they fetch huge money and business is booming making brand new replica parts, SU carburettors have just released a fuel injection system hidden inside old fashion SU carbs for example. There is a saying in the classic cars world, "of the 30'000 Lotus Cortinas built only 40'000 are still on the road", is that analogy not exactly the same as comparing pre CBS era fenders and new relic versions? [/quote] So, I haven't scrolled back to see which side of the fence you're on Pete, so correct me if I'm wrong, but what you're saying is that in the classic Car world (of which I know zero!), it's OK, but for guitars it's 'fake'? And really my statement was about the posts comparing artificially aged guitars to modern general consumer cars (which is what folks were referring to) being purposefully damaged and that being sold as a premium, which is ridiculous, IMHO! Edited February 20, 2017 by LewisK1975 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Does the car relicing extend to making them rusty? Genuine question... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc S Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) Everyone I know with a classic car would want to re-spray it if it got a ding or scratch. And I don't know anyone who would deliberately rust a car (So sorry Muzz, I don't know) - and I do know quite a lot of people with classic cars & vans. If you replaced the bonnet, doors wings & sills on your Lotus Cortina, it would still be a Lotus Cortina. But if you replace the body and neck on your pre CBS Fender, it's not really a Pre CBS Fender anymore - unless you have replaced with genuine Pre CBS parts, surely! My Uncle had a Lotus Cortina back in the 70's. He paid about £100 for it, and replaced pretty much everything..... and sold it for about £150 If you needed to replace a tenth of the parts on your classic pre CBS, that you would on an old Ford - you'd have had 3 replacement bodies, four replacement necks and complete electrical overhaul at least twice! Re my Uncle's old Lotus Cortina, I'm sure he now wishes he could've kept it, to sell in current times - but it was a rustbucket (as were both my Dad's Ford Cortinas) and something of a "dog" of a car. I'm sure if he'd replaced and re-sprayed everything, done a whole load of welding and then put it in a garage for 40 years, he'd now be quids in. But would you re-finish that Pre CBS, then put it in an airtight glass cabinet, and then make sure no daylight (and especially no UV) got to it? What would be the point of owning it? As I said earlier, please supply pics of your precious, unscratched bass being cleaned in the car wash, or parked on your driveway in the snow lol PS. I was sure your comment wasn't direct at me Jus Lukin - but it does seem that some people get on their high horses about reliced instruments. And it is one-way traffic, as I've never seen a relic / roadworn fan start a thread saying "Immaculate instruments: why not scratch them all now, so you can quit worrying about that first ding?" - Mind you, I could be tempted PPS. I have still not received a notice as to whether my Fender Jazz needs a new MOT .... I'll get my coat.... Edited February 20, 2017 by Marc S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmjos Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Hate them, utterly pointless. What is there to discuss. Put paint on, pay to have it taken off again to make it look like something that it will never sound like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc S Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 [quote name='pmjos' timestamp='1487600523' post='3241060'] Hate them, utterly pointless. What is there to discuss...... [/quote] Yet you discuss..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LewisK1975 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 [quote name='pmjos' timestamp='1487600523' post='3241060'] Hate them, utterly pointless. What is there to discuss. Put paint on, pay to have it taken off again to make it look like something that it will never sound like. [/quote] Oh dear me, just when we were getting somewhere with the constructive discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 [quote name='Muzz' timestamp='1487598664' post='3241031'] Does the car relicing extend to making them rusty? Genuine question... [/quote] Yep, massive rat look scene and 'oily rag' restorations, have a Google. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 [quote name='LewisK1975' timestamp='1487598451' post='3241029'] So, I haven't scrolled back to see which side of the fence you're on Pete, so correct me if I'm wrong, but what you're saying is that in the classic Car world (of which I know zero!), it's OK, but for guitars it's 'fake'? And really my statement was about the posts comparing artificially aged guitars to modern general consumer cars (which is what folks were referring to) being purposefully damaged and that being sold as a premium, which is ridiculous, IMHO! [/quote] I'm not really on either side here regarding the cars or guitars,for every example I can give a car example which people keep saying its nothing like when trust me it's exactly like. Here's a perfect example, you can buy a heritage shell for a mini or MGB, brand new, people will then paint them with thick cellulose paint and flat it back a bit before fitting the car out with new but period looking parts, you don't want a 2017 lacquered look finish, you want it to look old but good, almost as if to convince on lookers that's it's a genuine old car that's been around the houses, the rally boys will drill holes for extra lights, bonnet clips etc, it's exactly the same as a Limelight bass other than it's a car not a bass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1487604849' post='3241114'] Yep, massive rat look scene and 'oily rag' restorations, have a Google. [/quote] God almighty... It'd be interesting to cross-check Relic fans with people moaning about BF handles and finish chipping, mind... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LewisK1975 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1487605341' post='3241119'] I'm not really on either side here regarding the cars or guitars,for every example I can give a car example which people keep saying its nothing like when trust me it's exactly like. Here's a perfect example, you can buy a heritage shell for a mini or MGB, brand new, people will then paint them with thick cellulose paint and flat it back a bit before fitting the car out with new but period looking parts, you don't want a 2017 lacquered look finish, you want it to look old but good, almost as if to convince on lookers that's it's a genuine old car that's been around the houses, the rally boys will drill holes for extra lights, bonnet clips etc, it's exactly the same as a Limelight bass other than it's a car not a bass [/quote] OK, so is it MINI/BMW or MG offering that finished relic mini / MGB for sale in addition to their range of shiny new pristine models? Like Fender do? That is what makes it different IMHO! YMMV! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 I'm waiting for the Fender Road Worn Rumble Series to come out.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grangur Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 [quote name='Jus Lukin' timestamp='1487507989' post='3240270'] That's probably marketing speak for accelerated seasoning or something isn't it? I think all wood needs to be properly seasoned before it can be used to build an instrument, so should have been harvested and then stored long before use. In my limited understanding it is to do with repeated changes in humidity and other environmental factors, the end result being that moisture in the wood itself is reduced and it becomes more stable, probably among other things. Marketers will always be as loose with terms as they can possibly get away with, but nothing can actually be 'aged' except by time. Forced through the changes that might occur over time, sure, battered to give the impression of time and events having passed, yes. But a five year old piece of wood is five years old, regardless of whatever processes it's been through in that time. [/quote] Once wood is seasoned it's done. Cooking it a bit longer will not only be expensive but it won't achieve anything much in changing the appearance. It's more likely that they dye the wood a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 [quote name='LewisK1975' timestamp='1487606058' post='3241130'] OK, so is it MINI/BMW or MG offering that finished relic mini / MGB for sale in addition to their range of shiny new pristine models? Like Fender do? That is what makes it different IMHO! YMMV! [/quote] Your digging yourself a hole here, lol Aston Martin and Jaguar have in the last couple of years opened their own departments just for this purpose, Mercedes never stopped and have a huge network worldwide covering all models, G Wagons are very popular amongst the stars and wannabes for example built to any spec you can afford. Mini have been offering bolt on bits from the early 60s up to the current models, the MG B and Midget models can be built by the MG workshop as can Lotus elans etc, Jeez look at Morgan, they are basically the Fender Custom Shop but for new Morgan cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jus Lukin Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) - Edited February 24, 2022 by Jus Lukin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gazzatriumph Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 I thought it was just me, I never got why anyone would buy a relic guitar, whats the point, the only one I can see is that you would want people to think you've been playing for a long time. They look horrible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LewisK1975 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1487606486' post='3241143'] Your digging yourself a hole here, lol Aston Martin and Jaguar have in the last couple of years opened their own departments just for this purpose, Mercedes never stopped and have a huge network worldwide covering all models, G Wagons are very popular amongst the stars and wannabes for example built to any spec you can afford. Mini have been offering bolt on bits from the early 60s up to the current models, the MG B and Midget models can be built by the MG workshop as can Lotus elans etc, Jeez look at Morgan, they are basically the Fender Custom Shop but for new Morgan cars. [/quote] Haha OK fair enough, I still don't think it's quite the same but I think we've done it to death now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LewisK1975 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 [quote name='gazzatriumph' timestamp='1487607235' post='3241151'] I thought it was just me, I never got why anyone would buy a relic guitar, whats the point, the only one I can see is that you would want people to think you've been playing for a long time. They look horrible [/quote] I think this sums up most of the anti-relic feelings, people seem to be offended by the LOOK and that somehow the user of said guitar is trying to trick you into believing they have a really old guitar. Actually, No we're not. If I'm on a gig and get asked if my Bass is a roadworn/relic job, Yes I'll say. I'm a nice bloke you see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 The top and bottom of it is that's there's enough wealthy middle aged blokes than want people to think they've been gigging for years all over the world as there are guys that want you to think they might have been a racing driver in the 70s, lol. Either way they're not hurting anyone are they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LewisK1975 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Well, I don't think so Pete, but judging by some of the posts here it does seem to offend a few.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gazzatriumph Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 [quote name='LewisK1975' timestamp='1487607960' post='3241167'] I think this sums up most of the anti-relic feelings, people seem to be offended by the LOOK and that somehow the user of said guitar is trying to trick you into believing they have a really old guitar. Actually, No we're not. If I'm on a gig and get asked if my Bass is a roadworn/relic job, Yes I'll say. I'm a nice bloke you see. [/quote] I'm sure you are a nice bloke, I just like to have a nice new looking bass and try to keep it like that, I'm not anti relic I just don't get them, horses for courses, Im a nice bloke too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbayne Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 [quote name='gazzatriumph' timestamp='1487609372' post='3241186'] I'm sure you are a nice bloke, I just like to have a nice new looking bass and try to keep it like that, I'm not anti relic I just don't get them, horses for courses, Im a nice bloke too [/quote] Funnily enough, I have a practically mint USA P Bass which I am paranoid about gigging it in case it gets knocked. I also have a reliced bass which I am not so careful with, purely because it looks worn. Even if the wear is imitation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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