The Ultimate Amp Head

[birdy]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='310888' date='Oct 20 2008, 11:20 PM']Is there a 2 ohm class D out? I thought that they run too hot at that load... or perhaps am I completely wrong??

Why would you want two independent inputs?

This is interesting stuff...[/quote]

Heres the techie angle....

[url="http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/07/class-d-amplifi.html"]http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/07/class-d-amplifi.html[/url]

Is it correct though?

Steve

[tauzero]

It must be light (< 5kg).

It would be nice to have a mute facility, which should give the option of front panel switch and footswitch.

Not bothered about a tuner output, I have basses that stay in tune.

500W+, two speaker outlets connected in parallel with hybrid speakon/jack sockets.

DI out, switchable pre/post eq.

Jack and XLR in - not that I'm ever likely to use the XLR in but it looks kewl.

Graphic EQ with a memory.

It must have gadget credentials. I am geek.

Lots of lights.

Low noise, low distortion.

In fact, an Ashdown Superfly with a few improvements (mute switch, bridgeable output, XLR in, pre/post eq switch for DI, manufacturing consistency & decent QC).

[velvetkevorkian]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='310888' date='Oct 20 2008, 11:20 PM']Is there a 2 ohm class D out? I thought that they run too hot at that load... or perhaps am I completely wrong??

Why would you want two independent inputs?

This is interesting stuff...[/quote]
I have a Class D power amp which is certainly safe to 2 ohms and possibly even further.

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='velvetkevorkian' post='311014' date='Oct 21 2008, 08:59 AM']I have a Class D power amp which is certainly safe to 2 ohms and possibly even further.[/quote]

What poweramp is that?

[Lfalex v1.1]

My Ultimate set-up would be a collection of 3 pre-amps and a tuner in a 6u case and a power amp in a 2u case.
Plus a switching system to shunt between them noiselessly.

Something like;

Ampeg SVP Pro for drive
Trace SMX pre for clean
SWR Interstellar overdrive or Warwick Quadruplet for seriously dirty

into

A big QSC, Crown, US Peavey etc.etc.etc.

[Huggy and the Bears]

My money is in a Markbass LMK. Takes some beating for sound, power, weight, size, features and money.

[velvetkevorkian]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='311015' date='Oct 21 2008, 09:01 AM']What poweramp is that?[/quote]
Its a BK Electronics module which I've just read in another thread is not being made any more.

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='velvetkevorkian' post='311484' date='Oct 21 2008, 06:36 PM']Its a BK Electronics module which I've just read in another thread is not being made any more.[/quote]

...because it overheats??!! he he

[Sean]

[quote name='Huggy and the Bears' post='311211' date='Oct 21 2008, 12:20 PM']My money is in a Markbass LMK. Takes some beating for sound, power, weight, size, features and money.[/quote]

+1

[alexclaber]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='310888' date='Oct 20 2008, 11:20 PM']Is there a 2 ohm class D out? I thought that they run too hot at that load... or perhaps am I completely wrong??[/quote]

The reason that quite a few lightweight Class D bass amps can't run down to 2 ohms is that their output stage consists of bridging two lower power amplifiers (both rated for 2 ohms) thus giving you a 4 ohm limit. Class D has no problem at all with 2 ohm operation if it's designed for it and is far less likely to have overheating problems than Class AB due to its higher efficiency.

Alex

Edited October 22, 2008 by alexclaber

[Kiwi]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='310888' date='Oct 20 2008, 11:20 PM']Is there a 2 ohm class D out? I thought that they run too hot at that load... or perhaps am I completely wrong??

Why would you want two independent inputs?

This is interesting stuff...[/quote]
The two inputs are for two basses. There are some amps out there like the Hevos 800D which already do this. In fact the Hevos is pretty much two amps in one rack, with independent output volumes too. But its 1300 quid (although hand made at that also).

The Genz Benz NeoPak 3.5 has a class D power section and is capable of 2ohms, but its not as powerful as the Shuttle 6.0.

The Eden eq is unsurpassed in my experience for nailing boomy or soaked up frequencies

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='311773' date='Oct 22 2008, 08:39 AM']The reason that quite a few lightweight Class D bass amps can't run down to 2 ohms is that their output stage consists of bridging two lower power amplifiers (both rated for 2 ohms) thus giving you a 4 ohm limit. Class D has no problem at all with 2 ohm operation if it's designed for it and is far less likely to have overheating problems than Class AB due to its higher efficiency.

Alex[/quote]


Hmm. Thought as much... so why aren't there more powerful single power amps hence negating the need to bridge two? Or are there? Or is the bridging of two power amps a cost saving mechanism?

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='311775' date='Oct 22 2008, 08:43 AM']The two inputs are for two basses. There are some amps out there like the Hevos 800D which already do this. In fact the Hevos is pretty much two amps in one rack, with independent output volumes too. But its 1300 quid (although hand made at that also).

The Genz Benz NeoPak 3.5 has a class D power section and is capable of 2ohms, but its not as powerful as the Shuttle 6.0.

The Eden eq is unsurpassed in my experience for nailing boomy or soaked up frequencies[/quote]

Ah. OK... that makes sense. I remember looking at the Hevos stuff moons back. Nice stuff I thought.

Genz Benz NeoPak 3.5 - just looked at that. Output isn't nearly as high as the Shuttle. I am guessing the Shuttle has bridged poweramps?

[chris_b]

The definition of ULTIMATE is "the finest or most superior quality of its kind". We're not looking at personal taste here but generally accepted superior bass amps that have stood the test of time and opinion. In this category you've got to be looking at the Ampeg SVT and the Eden WT800.

[Kiwi]

[quote name='chris_b' post='311792' date='Oct 22 2008, 09:01 AM']The definition of ULTIMATE is "the finest or most superior quality of its kind". We're not looking at personal taste here but generally accepted superior bass amps that have stood the test of time and opinion. In this category you've got to be looking at the Ampeg SVT and the Eden WT800.[/quote]
With that approach wouldn't you be excluding less popular amps that might otherwise be technically superior? Can you say how much of the "superiority" the SVT and WT800 is down to marketing and accessibility in the shops and how much is down to having a technically competitive product?

[alexclaber]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='311779' date='Oct 22 2008, 08:48 AM']Hmm. Thought as much... so why aren't there more powerful single power amps hence negating the need to bridge two? Or are there? Or is the bridging of two power amps a cost saving mechanism?[/quote]

I gather many of the new lightweight heads are using generic power amp modules rather than developing their own, which makes a lot of sense as you don't otherwise get the economies of scale with the small market that is the bass guitar world.

Alex

[BassInThePlace]

[quote name='chris_b' post='311792' date='Oct 22 2008, 09:01 AM']The definition of ULTIMATE is "the finest or most superior quality of its kind". We're not looking at personal taste here but generally accepted superior bass amps that have stood the test of time and opinion. In this category you've got to be looking at the Ampeg SVT and the Eden WT800.[/quote]

It's still subjective as to what one would consider superior quality though eh? Getting into a philosophical discussion regarding the meaning of the word 'ultimate' and all the corresponding (subjective)opinions derived thereafter is probably not what the original poster intended.

No matter what way you look at it, it's [i]all[/i] subjective. Granted, there are 'superior' amps that are a cut above the rest, but regarding whether they are 'ultimate' has still got to be based on personal experience, and is therefore, subjective.

I do agree however, that the Ampeg SVT falls into this category. I have never used the Eden WT800, and I also think that older Trace Elliots such as the MkV AHxxx line should be considered 'ultimate' based on your definition, i.e: "...stood the test of time and opinion". As I stated in a previous post, I can get a better sound from a 20 year old Trace than I can from just about every other newer amp I play. That means that [i]I think[/i] it's an 'ultimate' amp derived from your definition. I'm sure that not everyone here agrees with me.

Does that mean that I am wrong and you are correct or vice-versa? No. Course not.

So we [i]are[/i] looking at personal opinion. Sorry.

[peted]

Surely the *ultimate* amp would be one which is the size and weight of a credit card, infinite headroom under any load, takes its EQ settings from the sound in your head, and is given away free in cereal packets.

Now THAT is an ULTIMATE amp

(oh, and it should also provide you with tailored bass lessons, like a Fender G-DEC but better)

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='311815' date='Oct 22 2008, 09:33 AM']With that approach wouldn't you be excluding less popular amps that might otherwise be technically superior? Can you say how much of the "superiority" the SVT and WT800 is down to marketing and accessibility in the shops and how much is down to having a technically competitive product?[/quote]


What about say, Walter Woods?

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='peted' post='311879' date='Oct 22 2008, 10:50 AM']Surely the *ultimate* amp would be one which is the size and weight of a credit card, infinite headroom under any load, takes its EQ settings from the sound in your head, and is given away free in cereal packets.

Now THAT is an ULTIMATE amp

(oh, and it should also provide you with tailored bass lessons, like a Fender G-DEC but better)[/quote]

...and obviously because it is the size and weight of a credit card, it has no speaker sockets or inputs of any type, so it should all run on vaporware (Trademark) connections!

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='BassInThePlace' post='311831' date='Oct 22 2008, 09:49 AM']So we [i]are[/i] looking at personal opinion. Sorry.[/quote]


No that's good. I mean, I don't like Ampeg much... but that's why this is a great thread. Different people's views are great.

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='311822' date='Oct 22 2008, 09:40 AM']I gather many of the new lightweight heads are using generic power amp modules rather than developing their own, which makes a lot of sense as you don't otherwise get the economies of scale with the small market that is the bass guitar world.

Alex[/quote]

Yup - I am guessing a lot are made for the audiophile world meaning that the high wattage outputs are not as important as for say bass amps...

[johnnylager]

The ultimate is easy for me - I guess it's a lightweight 2-3u rackable affair which has 2 switchable channels - SVT dirt & EBS sparkle, a good 500 real world watts, a decent compressor, mute and blue lights on the front. And everything footswitchable. Except power!

[BassBod]

Well, I've got half of it, in the form of an old Alembic F2B preamp - run into the power amp of the Euphonic Audio 500, that's almost it for me. I would say the F2B together with the SWR Stereo800 power amp, but its a bit heavy and I hate the fan noise on smaller gigs.

I love the EA stuff, its light and sounds wonderful in all situations, but I have to agree with people here who say that "older" designs just sound good in a way that newer stuff doesn't. I've got a TrySellin'it GP11 here, as well as the F2B and they are both great preamps.

BB

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='BassBod' post='312546' date='Oct 22 2008, 10:03 PM']Well, I've got half of it, in the form of an old Alembic F2B preamp - run into the power amp of the Euphonic Audio 500, that's almost it for me. I would say the F2B together with the SWR Stereo800 power amp, but its a bit heavy and I hate the fan noise on smaller gigs.

I love the EA stuff, its light and sounds wonderful in all situations, but I have to agree with people here who say that "older" designs just sound good in a way that newer stuff doesn't. I've got a TrySellin'it GP11 here, as well as the F2B and they are both great preamps.

BB[/quote]

Yeah - the alembic preamps are something special. Based on Fender preamps if I recall.