Bands that don't practice

[mcnach]

[quote name='uk_lefty' timestamp='1487666781' post='3241557']
It doesn't matter how many times you jam along to a CD or listen to songs in your car, you need the whole band rehearsal for nailing the structure and feel of songs.
[/quote]

It helps nailing the structure, and if you enjoy it and have the time that's great, why not?
But you don't *need* it to nail a structure. What you need is for everybody to do their homework. It just takes more effort than doing it over a number of band rehearsals. If you have already a CD or whatever recording that tells you what the structure is, why can't you all learn it from it? If you make mistakes together it's only because one or more of you have not really learnt it...

I don't hate rehearsals I love getting together and making noise! But I disagree about what the minimum requirements are in order to make it work, I suppose. And when time is limited, making me spend an evening a week going over the same old song over and over does not seem like a very productive thing to do.

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='dmccombe7' timestamp='1487668378' post='3241581']

Current band rehearse every week altho its more for fun and social gathering of mates than anything else.
[/quote]

Surprised it's taken to post #22 for anyone to make this point.

My main band (Junkyard Dogs) has existed in its current line-up for about five years and many of the songs in our current set list were there from the start. We still rehearse every single week because being tight on stage often requires more than just musical familarity - personal interaction and banter usually appeal to an audience, and you get more of that if the band are used to acting in that way in real life.

My second busiest band (Long String Hawkers) seems determined to set new levels of 'loose' in it playing. Rehearsals are very relaxed, sociable affairs in someone's (large) front room, there's little pressure to get things right or to correct mistakes, so we make the same mistakes live on stage. At one level it's really frustrating, but at another level it contributes greatly to the laid back, make-it-up-as-you-go-along feel of the band.

There ain't no right or wrong to this. Just what works and what doesn't.

[TimR]

Yes. I've been in too many bands that don't have a plan when you walk into the rehearsal room and don't even have a plan for the next rehearsal when the leave the room.

That's a waste of time.

You only get tight by gigging but you all need to be confident walking out on stage knowing you know what's happening. So there's a balance to be had.

[Paul S]

I read a quote somewhere, something like - 'some bands rehearse until they get it right, we rehearse until we can't get it wrong'.

That is my favoured place to be. Not always possible but if I feel under-rehearsed then I don't enjoy the gig as I am always waiting for the inevitable train wreck. And for me it is all about enjoyment so I begin to question what I am doing there.

[BigRedX]

Firstly in my very limited experience of playing covers, I think that bands whose key members have been playing the songs for many years together don't realise how difficult it can be for new band members to find their place musically. Also without them realising it the songs may have evolved away from the original recorded versions over time.

When I joined my covers band I was given a list of songs to learn, and duly went out and bought to CDs with them on so I could get on with working out the bass parts. It was just as well this band rehearsed because at our very first practice I discovered:

1. On a couple of songs the drummer played a very slightly different rhythm to that on the recorded version (probably without even realising it anymore), which meant that my carefully learnt bass lines no longer fitted the groove properly and it was very noticeable in places that they didn't. That took more than a couple of run throughs to nail.

2. Although their excellent singer had no problem doing all the songs in their original keys, the guitarists had kept the songs that had been originally done down-tuned a semi-tone in standard tuning. It wasn't helped by the fact that of those songs, the two I'd learnt were both perfectly playable on the bass kept in standard tuning - in fact one of them was actually easier with the bass tuned to standard and the guitars in Eb! Needless to say those were a complete train wreck the first time we played them in rehearsal.

3. Unless the band has exactly the same instrumentation match all the overdubs of the original, some fiddling of the arrangement - usually to the rhythm section is inevitable. Especially on songs recorded in the 60s and early 70s where the "bass part" is an amalgamation of the bass guitar, keyboards and extra rhythm guitar, and simply playing the recorded bass guitar part on its own lacks sufficient drive to propel the song along. I found in those cases that bass line I ended up playing owed far more to the left hand of the keyboards than to the original bass guitar part.

4. Song length and version. It's all very well asking beforehand which version the band has based their cover on, but sometimes they are not even aware that alternative versions and edits of the songs exist. Several times I found myself still playing one part of the song while the rest of the band had moved on to another, because they played a different version, to the one they thought they'd told me to learn.

And that's before we get into endings the band have written for songs that fade out (and intros for songs that fade in).

Just about all those changes meant that playing along to the recorded versions in many cases was pretty much pointless, and the only way I was going to get my bass lines tight with the rest of the band was to practice playing with them.

For the seasoned covers bands veteran, I'm sure all of the above is completely obvious, but for me whose previous experience of playing covers was to break the song down to the lyrics and vocal melody and then rewrite everything to suit the band and their instrumentation, it was an eye-opener and not always in good way.

Edited February 21, 2017 by BigRedX

[Monkey Steve]

Rehearse, rehearse, rehearse! It's not just about knowing your own part, it's about the dynamics of the songs and the interactions between everybody. I hate gigging until everybody knows everything backwards. I also have war stories about learning 30+ songs in a month for a covers band (the first time I'd ever played guitar in a band - another one where the band hadn't learned everything that they were playing correctly, more like guesstimates based on the limitations of the old guitarist) and while I got away with our first couple of gigs, it was nowhere near as good as we were when we'd properly learned everything.

Once you are up and gigging then you don't need to practice every week, although I was talking about this very thing a couple of weeks ago with a drummer who has had to leave a band (because of a job/house move) that has been solidly gigging for some months and thus not rehearsing, and he is very concerned that he only knows how to play his old bands stuff, and his technique has gone to pot. tells me he's not going to be trying out for a new band until he's spent a good few months working on his technique. Not sure i agree with him, but I can see the point he's making.

Edited February 21, 2017 by Monkey Steve

[solo4652]

I do loads of home practice to learn my parts and I sort of pride myself on arriving at rehearsals well-prepared. Trouble is, not everybody has the same attitude. When we make mistakes and then agree on changes to address them, I make notes so I arrive at next rehearsal having incorporated those changes into my playing. I expect everybody else to do the same. But they don't. Result is same mistakes continue to be made, even though we've agreed what to do about them. Result is a bassist (and drummer) who rapidly gets fed up.

Bands could easily make do with fewer rehearsals if members bothered to make notes/pay attention to rehearsal recordings. But often they don't and, for me, that means I can't relax before a gig if I feel that a band is under-rehearsed and just about to go on stage and repeat all the same errors.

Train hard, fight easy.

Edited February 21, 2017 by solo4652

[solo4652]

[quote name='Paul S' timestamp='1487672334' post='3241624']
I read a quote somewhere, something like - 'some bands rehearse until they get it right, we rehearse until we can't get it wrong'.

That is my favoured place to be. Not always possible but if I feel under-rehearsed then I don't enjoy the gig as I am always waiting for the inevitable train wreck. And for me it is all about enjoyment so I begin to question what I am doing there.
[/quote]

There it is, right there. Paul S says in 3 lines what I clumsily said in 3 paragraphs.

[Monkey Steve]

[quote name='solo4652' timestamp='1487674066' post='3241650']
I do loads of home practice to learn my parts and I sort of pride myself on arriving at rehearsals well-prepared. Trouble is, not everybody has the same attitude. When we make mistakes and then agree on changes to address them, I make notes so I arrive at next rehearsal having incorporated those changes into my playing. I expect everybody else to do the same. But they don't. Result is same mistakes continue to be made, even though we've agreed what to do about them. Result is a bassist (and drummer) who rapidly gets fed up. Bands could easily make do with fewer rehearsals if members bothered to make notes/pay attention to rehearsal recordings. But often they don't and, for me, that means I can't relax before a gig if I feel that a band is under-rehearsed and just about to go on stage and repeat all the same errors.

Train hard, fight easy.
[/quote]

I totally agree with the issue of different people wanting different things from practices and it causing problems if they can't agree...normally it festers and eventually leads to a sacking or splitting up. And also the social aspect. As long as there aren't any issues within the band, hanging out with your mates for a few hours and playing the bass is a lot more fun than not hanging out with your mates and not playing the bass, surely?

The one that sticks out for me was an old guitarist in a covers band who was late for everything - rehearsals, gigs, everything, but it was never his fault - his satnav took him the wrong way, or something equally as unlikely, when it was very clear he just hadn't set off in time. For rehearsals he insisted that his boss wouldn't let him go before that day's work was finished so he couldn't be sure of when he would arrive, and was always at least an hour later than the rest of us in arriving at the studio, often much later. He then let slip that what he actually meant was that once his boss has let him go he then went and did his usual evening chores, like doing the weekly shop with his girlfriend, and then would sit down and eat his tea before packing his gear into the car and setting off for rehearsal, while we've been sat there twiddling our thumbs for an hour or two waiting for him (and with all of us having skipped eating to get straight to the studio after work). he thought it was unreasonable of us to expect him not eat or to come to the studio any earlier when it clearly wasn't his fault that he was late.

That didn't end well for him.

[dmccombe7]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1487671604' post='3241616']
Yes. I've been in too many bands that don't have a plan when you walk into the rehearsal room and don't even have a plan for the next rehearsal when the leave the room.

That's a waste of time.

You only get tight by gigging but you all need to be confident walking out on stage knowing you know what's happening. So there's a balance to be had.
[/quote]

I always like to rehearse songs to a point i know them well enough i don't need to concentrate on them too much and they come naturally. That way i can enjoy the gigs more and have fun doing what i enjoy most. Well almost anyways but that's another Off Topic conversation

Dave

[bassjim]

I have been here. It was very rare for the band to rehearse if at all. I started as a dep and went on to becoming full time. Throughout the ego of a guitarist was constantly on the old " you need to this here and need to that there" but wouldnt stop to take time out to rehearse any of it.
We were gigging every week without fail for best part of 4 years. Even at the end of that there were still things I wanted to straighten out but never did.
They had been going for 8 years before I joined so probably couldn't face the rehearsal every week plus gigs till it was all sorted.
Money was excellent so I became a yes man on this one. Met my fiance along the way and had a good time travelling abroad and what have you,so more pros than cons.
As much as its very annoying when the band want to just get on with it and expect you to drop into place, it can work out ok.
At first I was sensitive to "you got that bit wrong" and " in this bit can you..." but as time went on I either had sussed out what was required in "that bit" or a tune had evolved into where it was at with me in it.

You cant magic it all into place instantly but you can do your best. Roll with it and take a deep breath when criticised. If they are gigging lots rather than rehearsing lots its no bad thing. Not every thing can be perfect all the time.

If they are expecting perfection without rehearsing its not going to happen. Happy accidents at gigs however can become part of the way things are done moving forward and you become part of THAT band.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1487672637' post='3241631']
Firstly in my very limited experience of playing covers, I think that bands whose key members have been playing the songs for many years together don't realise how difficult it can be for new band members to find their place musically. Also without them realising it the songs may have evolved away from the original recorded versions over time.

When I joined my covers band I was given a list of songs to learn, and duly went out and bought to CDs with them on so I could get on with working out the bass parts. It was just as well this band rehearsed because at our very first practice I discovered:

1. On a couple of songs the drummer played a very slightly different rhythm to that on the recorded version (probably without even realising it anymore), which meant that my carefully learnt bass lines no longer fitted the groove properly and it was very noticeable in places that they didn't. That took more than a couple of run throughs to nail.

2. Although their excellent singer had no problem doing all the songs in their original keys, the guitarists had kept the songs that had been originally done down-tuned a semi-tone in standard tuning. It wasn't helped by the fact that of those songs, the two I'd learnt were both perfectly playable on the bass kept in standard tuning - in fact one of them was actually easier with the bass tuned to standard and the guitars in Eb! Needless to say those were a complete train wreck the first time we played them in rehearsal.

3. Unless the band has exactly the same instrumentation match all the overdubs of the original, some fiddling of the arrangement - usually to the rhythm section is inevitable. Especially on songs recorded in the 60s and early 70s where the "bass part" is an amalgamation of the bass guitar, keyboards and extra rhythm guitar, and simply playing the recorded bass guitar part on its own lacks sufficient drive to propel the song along. I found in those cases that bass line I ended up playing owed far more to the left hand of the keyboards than to the original bass guitar part.

4. Song length and version. It's all very well asking beforehand which version the band has based their cover on, but sometimes they are not even aware that alternative versions and edits of the songs exist. Several times I found myself still playing one part of the song while the rest of the band had moved on to another, because they played a different version, to the one they thought they'd told me to learn.

And that's before we get into endings the band have written for songs that fade out (and intros for songs that fade in).

Just about all those changes meant that playing along to the recorded versions in many cases was pretty much pointless, and the only way I was going to get my bass lines tight with the rest of the band was to practice playing with them.

For the seasoned covers bands veteran, I'm sure all of the above is completely obvious, but for me whose previous experience of playing covers was to break the song down to the lyrics and vocal melody and then rewrite everything to suit the band and their instrumentation, it was an eye-opener and not always in good way.
[/quote]

It's interesting that we see a lot of comments about people not wanting to play in a covers band from those that have never tried mainly, the presumption is that once you have nailed Brown Eyed Girl you are all set and there's no skill or challenge to be had but in reality and especially for dep players there's keys,tempos, syncopation, stops and starts, nods and winks going on to keep you busy, the best players do it without looking troubled at all maybe with nothing more than an email a few days before the gig, I know dep players that would do a better job of my regular gig unrehearsed.

Edited February 21, 2017 by stingrayPete1977

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1487675352' post='3241676']
... the presumption is that once you have nailed Brown Eyed Girl you are all set ...
[/quote]

Give me time. Another few months should do it ...

[Cat Burrito]

I like playing in a band that regularly rehearses, just to play and get tight. However I did play in one band that managed only 7 rehearsals in 3 1/2yrs. My main band of the last 8 years practices only a small handful of times a year. You can only get away with it if 1) every band member is of a good standard and 2) they all do their homework.

[TimR]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1487675352' post='3241676']


It's interesting that we see a lot of comments about people not wanting to play in a covers band from those that have never tried mainly, the presumption is that once you have nailed Brown Eyed Girl you are all set and there's no skill or challenge to be had but in reality and especially for dep players there's keys,tempos, syncopation, stops and starts, nods and winks going on to keep you busy, the best players do it without looking troubled at all maybe with nothing more than an email a few days before the gig, I know dep players that would do a better job of my regular gig unrehearsed.
[/quote]

I think there are a lot of musicians who get extremely anal about copying a tune exactly. If you're learning a new tune there is a lot of production junk in modern music. The skill lies in being experienced enough to know what is junk and what is a key part of the tune.

Nailing runs that are synchronised with a drummer are nice to have. I'd never spend hours learning one without having heard what the drummer is going to do as the chances are he's not going to have nailed it (unless he is one of those anal types).

Again I've spent too long in bands where getting the song exactly as per the original has mattered more than getting the song sounding good.

[Muzz]

I'm currently playing in two very different bands - the third (originals) band is on a semi-permanent hold at the moment, so I won't bother with that (different again) situation.

One band is a primarily function/wedding band, uses a fair few very high quality deps (drummer and guitard, very occasionally bassist when I can't make it) and never rehearses. It's well organised, the arrangement and key of the songs are set out from the start (a single reference version is circulated) and it works very well. There's a proper professional attitude taken to it all, and playing with a great dep really lifts everyone's game,and is a unique learning experience.

The second band is a Rawk band with some old friends which is having its first gig this weekend, so we've had maybe six or eight rehearsals as much as a social night out as anything, and that works very well, too. We expect to gig maybe once a month, and once we're gigging, I can see another rehearsal once a month to introduce new songs - we tend to rework stuff to suit ourselves, which is again a different, enjoyable experience.

I think the OP's issue isn't specifically with the methodology of the setup, but that he feels out of his depth with it, which is understandable given the pressure and time constraints he's under.

Edited February 21, 2017 by Muzz

[ambient]

Lots of people see a band rehearsal as being the time to learn the song.

I know a lot of people see it as a social event too.

The most recent band I played for that rehearsed was for a NYE gig at a racetrack. We were all given our individual parts weeks in advance. We were expected to learn them at home, the practice was just basically to make sure that everything worked, which is what a rehearsal in my mind is for.

[TimR]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1487678759' post='3241716']
Lots of people see a band rehearsal as being the time to learn the song.

I know a lot of people see it as a social event too.

The most recent band I played for that rehearsed was for a NYE gig at a racetrack. We were all given our individual parts weeks in advance. We were expected to learn them at home, the practice was just basically to make sure that everything worked, which is what a rehearsal in my mind is for.
[/quote]

Yes. Practice at home rehearse with band.
A band practice is where you pick parts of a song to work on because the arrangement isn't falling into place.

[uk_lefty]

Lots of good stuff here, nobody right or wrong in my view. I guess it's about the band agreeing together what they want to achieve from the rehearsal and how they want to be on stage - whether you have to be a tight pro unit or you're ok being a laid back jam band where you'll accept a few misfires for the odd moment of magic

[mikel]

Having no rehearsal is probably fine for some as they enjoy winging it or if they only play well known covers exactly as written. Personally I hate to see bands with music or charts on stage, I thinks its not professional. As has been noted, pro orchestras all sight read, but they still rehearse till they bleed. I like to do covers in a different style to the original. Sometimes with a different intro or ending, stops to make it more interesting etc. and I feel a well rehearsed band gets tighter and tighter till they can slacken of, and then they really start to play. If I am secure in the structure of a song I can then stretch out if the mood of the gig is flying.

I agree if you are gigging two or three times a week you don't need to rehearse, unless you are working up a new song.

Edited February 21, 2017 by mikel

[radiophonic]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1487672637' post='3241631']

4. Song length and version. It's all very well asking beforehand which version the band has based their cover on, but sometimes they are not even aware that alternative versions and edits of the songs exist. Several times I found myself still playing one part of the song while the rest of the band had moved on to another, because they played a different version, to the one they thought they'd told me to learn.

[/quote]

Yup: Examples in my last ill advised covers band.

'I'm Gonna Tear Your Playhouse Down'. Me; Paul Young's 80s hit (i.e. with the monster synth bass part). Them: Anne Peebles.
'The Letter' - Me: Joe Cocker (with the awesome Leon Russell arrangement), them Eva Cassidy snoozeathon.

They did Brown Eyed Girl too.

[TimR]

No. Learn the verse, chorus and midsection and listen to the vocals!

[BigRedX]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1487692557' post='3241890']
No. Learn the verse, chorus and midsection and listen to the vocals!
[/quote]

In my case the alternative versions were by the same band but the album versions that they played had whole extra sections with completely different chords that never appeared anywhere in the single version that I had learnt.

[yorks5stringer]

I have heard it said on here that if you practice /rehearse all the time, you just get good at rehearsing/practicing and actually playing gigs is a different skill.

My Americana Band rehearse every week (and it does my head in) unless we bring on new material, which we are doing this year, thank goodness!

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='yorks5stringer' timestamp='1487696330' post='3241939']
I have heard it said on here that if you practice /rehearse all the time, you just get good at rehearsing/practicing and actually playing gigs is a different skill.

My Americana Band rehearse every week (and it does my head in) unless we bring on new material, which we are doing this year, thank goodness!
[/quote]

At our last gig we made a car crash of the stuff we practiced at the previous rehearsal yet I was apprehensive about the songs played on double bass as I hadn't practiced at all, they were our best songs all night!