Christian Rock

[tonybassplayer]

A few weeks ago my partner dragged me along to the Abundant Life Centre in Bradford as she said I would enjoy it and despite my initial reservations I had a brilliant evening listening ( and singing along ) to some very well crafted and brilliantly played christian rock music.

Quite honestly I was staggered at the whole set up and how professional it was with huge stage and video screens, lighting, line array pa, 7 piece band plus about another 7 singers etc

Yes, the message was about God and Christianity but put across in such a way as to be very accesible ( everyone including the Pastor etc in jeans and tee shirts etc ) with a wide range of ages in the audience with probably more people under thirty than over !!

I have returned every week since and really enjoyed the music, message and all round experience and just wonder if anyone else has been.

By the way this is not meant to start a religious thread of who or what is the best religion nor is it a marketing exercise to get people to attend. I am just curious as to who out there on the forum may be involved with this place or others as once again music seems to be the one area that brings people together to share nice times and experiences together.

[hatori]

Ive been involved with Church worship bands for 20 plus years and during that time Ive met many brilliant musicians. I also play in bands outside of the Church setting but find greater freedom playing worship songs, for which the Fretless is the don. Good on you mate...enjoy!

[mcgraham]

When we were dating, my fiancee lived in Bradford and went to ALC. She helped run the kid's church, which for a 3000-4000 strong inner city church is a massive task. On the weekends we got to see each other I was privileged to get to go along to ALC, and meet and get to know a number of people that are involved there. It's a great church, I'd encourage you to keep going.

One of the lead musicians there is a dude called Joel. FYI, he's the guitarist who plays a green PRS. He actually did a degree in Jazz at Leeds College of Music, and this shows in at least some of their arrangements.

Also, another random fact, one of the singers (Abundant Life have a choir most weeks) was singing on X Factor in one of the choirs. My fiancee said we had to watch out for her. She was in the choir on the right in the Girlband rendition of 'Make it a better place', Last girl on the left in the back row with crazily long blonde hair.

Mark

[Funkydunc]

Big thumbs up for the ALC music. We cover a couple of their songs in our worship band.

Dunc

[fumps]

i have seen a recording of this kind of music.

But hand on heart it the religious side of things that makes me want to stay away.

I know that sounds harsh but i just cant get into religion, but i do appreciate what the church does for people (If that makes sence).

The recording i saw i was really impressed with the level of musicianship. but being honest i just could'nt get my head round the religious side of things.

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='fumps' post='310991' date='Oct 21 2008, 08:34 AM']I know that sounds harsh but i just cant get into religion, but i do appreciate what the church does for people[/quote]

Like helping to spread AIDS in Africa and so on?

I used to go to church regularly when I was 15/16 but only because I was shagging a Baptist minister's daughter.

[Earbrass]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='311126' date='Oct 21 2008, 10:57 AM']Like helping to spread AIDS in Africa and so on? [/quote]


Well said. Remember kids, just say "NO" to god.

[Josh]

[quote name='fumps' post='310991' date='Oct 21 2008, 08:34 AM']i have seen a recording of this kind of music.

But hand on heart it the religious side of things that makes me want to stay away.

I know that sounds harsh but i just cant get into religion, but i do appreciate what the church does for people (If that makes sence).

The recording i saw i was really impressed with the level of musicianship. but being honest i just could'nt get my head round the religious side of things.[/quote]

African American Gospel Music will always put white Christian Rock to shame, in every way.

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='311126' date='Oct 21 2008, 10:57 AM']Like helping to spread AIDS in Africa and so on? [/quote]

Or providing a regular group consciousness for dellusional thinking.

[Prosebass]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='311126' date='Oct 21 2008, 10:57 AM']Like helping to spread AIDS in Africa and so on?

I used to go to church regularly when I was 15/16 but only because I was shagging a Baptist minister's daughter.[/quote]

[yorks5stringer]

Notwithstanding the fact that Gareth Gates started out at the ALC in Bradford, I understand from some people I know who were involved there too, that it's great whilst you are 'in' with them, but if you want to leave it is made very very difficult.....can't say much more than this on a public forum.
I also know quite a significant % of their annual income was pledged to that church.
I guess it is different strokes for different folks but I have always been wary of them .

[fumps]

I should join then

i have no friends

[mcgraham]

yorks5stringer, my fiancee recently moved to Nottingham so that we could be closer and there was a nice sending off party for her. There was no difficulty involved in that. I honestly have not heard that it has been, or could be difficult to leave ALC, other than it just being emotionally difficult personally for one to leave this church.

Josh, what do you define as delusional?

Earbrass, why should kids say no?

I ask these things in the hope of reasoned discussion.

Mark

[Josh]

[quote name='mcgraham' post='311195' date='Oct 21 2008, 11:55 AM']Josh, what do you define as delusional?

Earbrass, why should kids say no?

I ask these things in the hope of reasoned discussion.

Mark[/quote]

I define the sheer act of spending 3+ hours every sunday morning singing tacky hyms in hope of being promised a place in Heaven as delusional, the same goes for having glorified fairy tales preached at you from a book in which almost every gospel contradicts the other, both to scare and enlighten you. I also find it highly delusional to claim that being "Gifted" at any given instrument is all because God bistowed it upon that person, it is purely ludicrous, that some omnipotent being whos existence has never ever been proven by solid evidence other than thousand year old scriptures which for one were written by people with religious agendas and have subsequently been twisted and turned over as many years to suit their own means. To believe in something as far fetched as a Creator who has enough time to give one little tiny human the ability to play an instrument , whilst balancing between his hectic schedule of: Answering prayers, performing miracles around the earth, controlling the winds and all of the planets rotation, dishing out his wrath, governing the nature of the whole Universe etc....

I define Religion as Delusional.

If you wish to go further Mark please do say so.

Edited October 21, 2008 by Josh

[DirkThrust]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='311126' date='Oct 21 2008, 10:57 AM']Like helping to spread AIDS in Africa and so on? [/quote]

Do you have any facts to back up that statement?

Is it that old chestnut about the Catholic church banning the use of condoms.

THere are many reasons why HIV is spreading in Africa. You should take the time to do a bit of research before making blanket statements like this.

[BigBeefChief]

Seems that you get a lot of technically gifted players going through church bands.

Not seen so much evidence in the UK, but from the clips I've seen of US based gospel bands, they always seem to be pretty tight.

There's no point arguing about the existence of God/the influence of Christians on here though. Mores sensible to stick to the music.


On that point, it's really not my cup of tea. Not being a Christain, I couldn't get into a song singing Jesus' praises. It also has a slight ring of organised fun to me. No matter what you say, christian music ain't cool! It doesn't make me want to drink Jack Daniels and shout "f*** YEAH!". (although I appreciate that not everyone wants this).


I would bet, and this is purely conjecture, that you are more likely to play an instrument if you're a christian. My evidence for this is purely anecdotal, but I think the regular exposure to actively making music (singing hymns) and the whole happy clapper/self improvement ethos certainly improves your liklihood of picking up an instrument.

Maybe that's why you get a lot of decent musicians in these bands?

[yorks5stringer]

The particular issue was around my neighbours totally leaving the Church and withdrawing their financial committment, nuff said.
My other personal concern is around their stance on a woman's right to have an abortion: Abundant [b]Life[/b] Church...but they are not the only purveyor of religion to take this viewpoint it has to be said!
Like I said, different strokes for different folks.

[wulf]

[quote name='Josh' post='311206' date='Oct 21 2008, 11:10 AM']I define the sheer act of spending 3+ hours every sunday morning singing tacky hyms in hope of being promised a place in Heaven as delusional...[/quote]
You are not backing up your assertions with well-grounded facts. Anyway, wasn't the original post about the musical and production values of the church in question and not the delusional / ill-grounded nature of various belief systems?

Wulf

[bigjohn]

I prefer what my neighbours call "Devil Music"...

[mcgraham]

Josh, let me see if I understand you correctly. All the things you've described (which I think have been at least mildly misrepresented in your post, but lets leave that as it's peripheral) appear ludicrous to you. You see it as an unfounded delusion that these people are indulging in the belief of a creator God, singing praises to Jesus and the Holy Spirit, [i]because you do not believe that any of these things are true[/i].

Is this the case? Or is there something else that I am missing? I just wish to respond accurately.

Mark

[bigjohn]

[quote name='mcgraham' post='311221' date='Oct 21 2008, 12:32 PM']Josh, let me see if I understand you correctly. All the things you've described (which I think have been at least mildly misrepresented in your post, but lets leave that as it's peripheral) appear ludicrous to you. You see it as an unfounded delusion that these people are indulging in the belief of a creator God, singing praises to Jesus and the Holy Spirit, [i]because you do not believe that any of these things are true[/i].

Is this the case? Or is there something else that I am missing? I just wish to respond accurately.

Mark[/quote]


Yeah come on Josh... are you some kinda atheist heathen or what?

[Rich]

[quote name='wulf' post='311217' date='Oct 21 2008, 12:26 PM']wasn't the original post about the musical and production values of the church in question and not the delusional / ill-grounded nature of various belief systems?[/quote]
[b]Yes, and it'd be nice to keep it that way. We've got quite a few threads that have veered into the territory of religion. Can we keep this one strictly on-topic please (i.e. gospel/worship music discussed as [u]music[/u] rather than as gospel/worship)?[/b]

For what it's worth, I love hearing gospel choirs -- being an atheist, I just ignore the message and listen to the lovely noise they make.

[mcgraham]

Please, I don't see the need for snide comments. The italics were to highlight what appears to me to be the crux of the matter.

If these things [i]were[/i] true, that there is a creator God, and the associated trinity, would it still be ludicrous? Would it still be delusional to do the things that Josh listed as delusional if this were true?

Apologies Rich, if anyone wishes to continue in PMs they are welcome too (I hope it's ok to say that Rich, let me know if you want me to remove any of my comments). Back to our regularly scheduled programme

Mark

Edited October 21, 2008 by mcgraham

[Johngh]

Getting back to the original question. I've been in Worship Groups on and off for a few years. I've just left the church where I was bass player in the worship group to go to the UCKG in Nottingham where there is no worship group at all.

Yes I've been to the ALC in Bradford, and there is no doubt the Pastor is doing a good job there. But for me it was a bit like going to the theatre. If he took away all the glitz, I wonder how many people would still go. And its also very much like the Hillsong Australia set up.

[Josh]

[quote name='mcgraham' post='311221' date='Oct 21 2008, 12:32 PM']Josh, let me see if I understand you correctly. All the things you've described (which I think have been at least mildly misrepresented in your post, but lets leave that as it's peripheral) appear ludicrous to you. You see it as an unfounded delusion that these people are indulging in the belief of a creator God, singing praises to Jesus and the Holy Spirit, [i]because you do not believe that any of these things are true[/i].

Is this the case? Or is there something else that I am missing? I just wish to respond accurately.

Mark[/quote]

I see it as a delusion purely because there is such a lack of evidence to prove any of what they are singing/praying/dancing for is real, simple logic dictates that if you are to believe in something as diverse as Religion or Astronomy then there has to be solid evidence that proves that the subject is certified as beliveable. And for the latter the amount of solid provene vidence is staggering and still coming in, whereas with Religion, the best your going to get is an answer when you pass away.

If you wish to take it to PM's Mark so the thread can carry on then please do .

Edited October 21, 2008 by Josh

[joe_bass]

Here we go another thread side tracked on to religious beliefs, now watch it turn nasty.



My gf used to be involved with a church, I played bass a couple of times in a service. Most of it was shocking, terribly organised band etc. What used to annoy me was the "you are great for trying" attitude, really installing a false sense of accomplishment in everyone. Not just talking music sense.

My gf doesn't go anymore, for a few reasons. No point going in to them though.