Christian Rock

[Hamster]

[quote name='Josh' post='311607' date='Oct 21 2008, 09:53 PM']A majority of Christian Rock music is dull and predictable, it just serves as a basis to preach in a more accessible form to younger people.[/quote]

But isn't it because that's the sort of music that makes up 99% of the top 40 singles? - dull & predictable. It's only that to the more esoteric ear - it's what a lot of young people like. If you play more esoteric music it makes it a less cultural form of worship/praise.

Edited October 21, 2008 by Hamster

[Josh]

[quote name='Hamster' post='311615' date='Oct 21 2008, 10:02 PM']But isn't it because that's the sort of music that makes up 99% of the top 40 singles? - dull & predictable. It's only that to the more esoteric ear - it's what a lot of young people like. If you play more esoteric music it makes it a less cultural form of worship/praise.[/quote]


It is indeed, and now and again something does come along. I've got a profoundly Christian younger sister and she constantly has Christian Rock on and occasionally she puts something good on in between, but what it seems to me is that these bands model themselves on bands which the kids love (The Used a re a perfect example) and really turn it on it's head, it's not about the music anymore it's all about the message.

[walplayer]

[quote name='tonybassplayer' post='311545' date='Oct 21 2008, 08:08 PM']Wow, I didn't expect to log on tonight and find three pages of comments !!

I can only speak it as I see and experience it.

I was VERY sceptical on my first visit but just really enjoyed the whole evening of music, singing and message ( and when I say sceptical I really mean it as I would never have envisaged myself in church for anything more than the traditional weddings, funerals etc )

My children ( 7, 8 and 11 ) loved the children's classes and are delighted every Sunday when I ask them if they want to go again.

Everyone I have met has been very nice and friendly.

The band, singers and music are superb.

I grew up as a teenager in the seventies when life was pretty different to how it is now and as my children grow that bit older I will have to try to guide them in the right direction to ensure that they have the best start in life. From what I saw of the huge numbers of teenagers at the ALC all having a brilliant time singing etc and from what I have researched since then this is certainly a place that I would feel safe if they wanted to attend.

Tony[/quote]

Forgive me if i seem cynical,but Is this definitely not a promo/spread the word exercise for you?

[walplayer]

[quote name='Josh' post='311607' date='Oct 21 2008, 09:53 PM']A majority of Christian Rock music is dull and predictable, it just serves as a basis to preach in a more accessible form to younger people. It's sugar coated chorus friendly to bring the masses in.[/quote]

I wasn't trying to define the style of music ,or what is/isn't good music ,my point was that if it didn't have the religious associations,they wouldn't be reacting to it in that way. I find it hard to believe their enjoyment is primarily the music 1st and then the lyrics/message 2nd.
Obviously i can't speak for them .

[tonybassplayer]

No, not at all and apologies if it sounds that way.

I just went along, enjoyed it and wondered if any other bass players either attended or were involved in similar events around the country.

[walplayer]

No you don't need to apologise,i'm just a bit confused by your post.
It's great that you've found something obviously special to you,why not start a christian bassists sub forum thing going on here?
I edited this post incase it seemed patronising or inflammatory which is not my intent.(and just in case the baby jesus reading it of course! )
Good luck with it



[quote name='tonybassplayer' post='311642' date='Oct 21 2008, 10:25 PM']No, not at all and apologies if it sounds that way.

I just went along, enjoyed it and wondered if any other bass players either attended or were involved in similar events around the country.[/quote]

Edited October 21, 2008 by walplayer

[MacDaddy]

I used to quite like Stryper.

does that count?

[KennysFord]

For me the best thing to come out of this thread is the stevie,chaka,prince video.The lady in the white suit has an amazing voice,who is she ????
another devout religious abstainer here i'm afraid.

[LukeFRC]

I played in my church worship band, to be honest if i didn't I wouldn't be able to play the bass beyond basic playing along with 'with or without you' or something. To be pushed a few months into starting learning to be regularly playing in front of over 100 folk in a situation where you had to listen and fit with the song in a way you don't need to do in normal gigs was great. To not practice as a band and be given chord charts to new songs ten minuites before playing them also meant I had to learn to be inventive, and quick and good (or as i did once realise that the bass line from londons calling fitted over the song!). The last band i was in there was a wee bit of tension with the church stuff (why do want to play with them tom morning aswell as play with US?) but it really honed my ability to write intresting basslines.

But man some/most/all of the songs are dreadful! For you who dont know hill songs think U2 crossed with snowpatrol with such a big band everything comes out as a mush. And the rhythm always seems to be soo dull square four four.


Also when the BigBeefChief is the voice of moderation and reason in a thread you know somethings up. Yes some folk play bass and beleive in things, others play bass and dont believe in things, its all very intresting but im not sure this thread is the place to prove/disprove God's existence/nonexistence or talk about our personal beefs with religion/non religion. Maybe start a 'God I love [s]Jazz[/s] God' thread..... lol no dont

[Rich]

[quote name='LukeFRC' post='311713' date='Oct 22 2008, 01:08 AM']Also when the BigBeefChief is the voice of moderation and reason in a thread you know somethings up. Yes some folk play bass and beleive in things, others play bass and dont believe in things, its all very intresting but im not sure this thread is the place to prove/disprove God's existence/nonexistence or talk about our personal beefs with religion/non religion. Maybe start a 'God I love [s]Jazz[/s] God' thread..... lol no dont[/quote]
+1. I tried to point this out 2 pages ago, and it did become sensible for a short while...
Personally I'm quite happy to discuss all aspects of religion till the cows come home, but [i]this is not the place for it[/i] (apart from anything else, it's the 'General Bass Discussion' subforum!). So please folks, stick to the music and leave the deity-bashing out of it. Obviously a lot of you share my deep-seated atheism, but this is not the thread in which to voice it.

[Hutton]

[quote name='Rumble' post='311511' date='Oct 21 2008, 07:17 PM']Alas, someone with whom to share my frustrations!! I know exactly what you mean Mark. Whilst the US Gospel seen pumps out some amazing tunes, I continue to be amazed at why the UK worship scene hasn't moved on from the very rock based Hillsongs type material. Sure, there's some fantastic musicians out there in the UK Christian music scene, but it's such a shame they don't have some of the best arrangements to play. And before anyone else says it, yes, I know it's more about the words / content, but wouldn't it be great to have some funky / souly / even reggae type music to accompany them?[/quote]

Couldn't say it better myself. Agreeing with you big time!

[Toasted]

[quote name='AndyMartin' post='311209' date='Oct 21 2008, 12:18 PM']Do you have any facts to back up that statement?

Is it that old chestnut about the Catholic church banning the use of condoms.

THere are many reasons why HIV is spreading in Africa. You should take the time to do a bit of research before making blanket statements like this.[/quote]

He didn't say "solely responsible" he said "helping"

[mcgraham]

[quote]Couldn't say it better myself. Agreeing with you big time![/quote]

It's a hard balance to strike, as it must be pointed it that if the music becomes overly complex or showy, people can/may become distracted by the music during worship, and not focusing on the whole point of that time. Even those who don't agree with organised religion, or have their reservations etc, I'm sure that even they can recognise that if a team of people is meant to be doing one task that it is their responsibility to do, it would be sub-ordinate for them to try to change their responsibility to something they'd 'prefer' to do, or 'like better'. To give a secular example, if you're meant to be a quiet jazz lounge pianist who's responsiblity is to do quiet background jazz that sets a mood, it would be entirely irresponsible and subordinate to the task that said pianist been assigned if they then chose to play Hiromi, Herbie Hancock et al at high speed very loudly. Though it may be impressive, it's not actually the reason they are there.

Mark

Edited October 22, 2008 by mcgraham

[mcgraham]

[quote]wouldn't it be great to have some funky / souly / even reggae type music to accompany them?[/quote]

Rumble, the worship director at our church is a music teacher with the local schools, together me and him often come up with some truly funky arrangements. We did the awfully cheesy song 'There's a place, where the streets shine' in a truly funky James Brown-esque style. If you want I can throw together a chord chart for you with some notes on the arrangement.

Mark

[DirkThrust]

[quote name='Toasted' post='311777' date='Oct 22 2008, 08:46 AM']He didn't say "solely responsible" he said "helping" [/quote]

You are absolutely correct

But still a rather pointless remark to make in a thread about music

[BigBeefChief]

The trouble with this music (and a lot of genres) is that its limited in its lyrical content.

When I'm jamming on by bass or guitar, the tune often dictates the lyrics. If I was a Christian, I'd get p1ssed off trying to cram references to God, Jesus, a burning bush and feet washing into my songs.

It's a bit like a metal songs which, as we all know, can only contain lyrics about sh1tting on gravestones and sacrificial self-harming.

Edited October 22, 2008 by BigBeefChief

[TheRev]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='311844' date='Oct 22 2008, 10:04 AM']The trouble with this music (and a lot of genres) is that its limited to its lyrical content.

When I'm jamming on by bass or guitar, the tune often dictates the lyrics. If I was a Christian, I'd get p1ssed off trying to cram references to God, Jesus a burning bush and feet washing into my songs.

It's a bit like a metal songs which, as we all know, can only contain lyrics about sh1tting on gravestones and sacrificial self-harming.[/quote]

Would the person who has taken over TBBC's profile please give it back to him? All this reasoned debate is giving me the creeps.

You make a good point about lyrical content though. Back in the mid 90s I loved the band Live and their 'Throwing Copper' album is still one of my all time favourites. They were always a 'spiritual' band, although not specifically Christian, but as the grunge thing became less popular, they aligned themselves more and more with the Christian rock scene to the point where their songs became more and more preachy and the music became something to hang the words from.

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='311844' date='Oct 22 2008, 10:04 AM']The trouble with this music (and a lot of genres) is that its limited in its lyrical content.

When I'm jamming on by bass or guitar, the tune often dictates the lyrics. If I was a Christian, I'd get p1ssed off trying to cram references to God, Jesus, a burning bush and feet washing into my songs.

It's a bit like a metal songs which, as we all know, can only contain lyrics about sh1tting on gravestones and sacrificial self-harming.[/quote]

+1

I actually wrote my dissertation on religion and contemporary art. The number of 'christian artists' over the last 20 years or so can be counted on the fingers of one foot. (by this i mean allowed into the cannon of art history, another debatable point but i was looking at postmodernity not disecting the power strugles in the art world)
One of the main distiguishing things about postmodern art/music is the element of uncertainty, that element of questioning oneself and knowing you arnt able to be certain. 'Christian' music often has that certainty of beleif and then seeks to reinforce it, for some reason all the dark messy bits get swept aside.
This is strange as i'm not sure bight-sunshine-happy-clappy fully encompasses the human condition, if you look at the Psalms (old jewish songs to God) then you see praise and joy and darkeness and dispair.
so many christian song writters just seem to sing about the things already being sung about, using the bible in an abstract way. in doing it it loses its soul. Compare this to early gospel and spiritual and they had soul.

anyway im not sure their religious background but it sounds like they know a bit and mix it with the dark but check [url="http://<a%20href="http://www.myspace.com/mumfordandsons"%20target="_blank">http://www.myspace.com/mumfordandsons</a>"]this lot[/url] out (warning minimal bass, but good songs)

[Prosebass]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='311844' date='Oct 22 2008, 10:04 AM']The trouble with this music (and a lot of genres) is that its limited in its lyrical content.

When I'm jamming on by bass or guitar, the tune often dictates the lyrics. If I was a Christian, I'd get p1ssed off trying to cram references to God, Jesus, a burning bush and feet washing into my songs.

It's a bit like a metal songs which, as we all know, can only contain lyrics about sh1tting on gravestones and sacrificial self-harming.[/quote]

I see the medication has kicked in......

[Prosebass]

Here we go best of both worlds....A Christian Thrash Metal Band....[url="http://www.secretion.com"]Secretion[/url]

[BigBeefChief]

"Continuing to defend the faith with Brutal Death Metal"

Brilliant!

[mcgraham]

[quote]When I'm jamming on by bass or guitar, the tune often dictates the lyrics. If I was a Christian, I'd get p1ssed off trying to cram references to God, Jesus, a burning bush and feet washing into my songs.[/quote]

Whilst I agree that one can be limited by lyrics, I personally think that lodging oneself or one's band into a given genre is [i]far [/i]more limiting than having a 'target' audience that the content of one's songs is aimed at. For example, in corporate (as in congregational) worship times we can (and do) play songs in a vast array of styles, because we are not bound to one particular style. It is the subject matter, not necessarily the vehicle by which it is conveyed that is key. It is not style over substance, the substance needs to be cohesive and logical, that focuses people on the reason they are worshipping and inspires them, and ultimately causes them to praise God. Whether you agree with this being good or not is irrelevant to the fact that this is what worship music is for. (Which is another reason why music is peripheral to true worship, but that's another topic).

In contrast, I hear very few songs that actually make any sense at all (e.g. those in typical rock, metal etc), and those that do (ala singer songwriters) happen to be (to me) quite boring and uninteresting stories. I don't care about the girl you met on your trip to Asda that looked stunning but broke your heart and now you're singing about the whole darned thing, Mr. Ben Folds (maybe not singer songwriter but you get my point). I would call most secular music as being style over substance, at least to some extent, but that's just my opinion. Honestly, I can rarely work out what the point of the lyrics in secular songs are about.

One last thing, just to try and explain where a good proportion of worship music lyrics come from. Some come from the Bible yes, but others are just people writing songs about God in their own way based on their own personal experience of how good he is. Much like singer songwriters do, and yes I acknowledge there are some weak ones. What is different though (again, IMO), is that the content carries a lot more weight than and as I do care about such things, I am instantly drawn in to listen to what they are singing about.

Mark

[William James Easton]

somebody voices opinion on internet forum shocker!

[Prosebass]

[quote name='mcgraham' post='311904' date='Oct 22 2008, 11:19 AM']In contrast, I hear very few songs that actually make any sense at all (e.g. those in typical rock, metal etc), and those that do (ala singer songwriters) happen to be (to me) quite boring and uninteresting stories. I don't care about the girl you met on your trip to Asda that looked stunning but broke your heart and now you're singing about the whole darned thing, Mr. Ben Folds (maybe not singer songwriter but you get my point). I would call most secular music as being style over substance, at least to some extent, but that's just my opinion. Honestly, I can rarely work out what the point of the lyrics in secular songs are about.
Mark[/quote]

You see thats just the point.....most popular music has no point , it needs no point of reference it just sounds good and invokes a feeling / emotion.
So it is OK for you to slag off "typical , boring, uninteresting" secular music "style over substance" yet you take umbrage when others criticize happy clapping and songs to a deity for which their is no proof . Most popular music lyrics are a reflection on real life not fantasy.

I believe Jesus did exist and was a very forward and progressive thinking guy, but I think he is misquoted / misrepresented and the whole God thing bothers me.

Edited October 22, 2008 by Prosebass

[fumps]

I totally agree with most of this thread.

But the style of this music & the attitude that if you are not religious you are not "Good" is beyond me. i never enter a church or worship but i'm a nice person & go out of my way to help others. just because i dont go to church that does'nt give anyone the right religious or not to judge me......i remember theres something about casting stones in the big book i once heard someone quote to me.
Now thats my views on religion, basic but i see the world as a big place & it's got plenty of room for everyone.

Now for the music:
If someone wrote a song about his girlfriend & went on for another 12 more songs & all of them basically said "I love my girlfriend, she's lovley & i love her" things would get pretty dull after a while. this is what i really dont get about religious songs. they all say very simular things.

What i find almost comical is in Leeds theres "Peoples FM" its a raggae radio station, i usually listen to it just for a change & they are constantly singing about God, Jesus & Jah. It's the most relgious thing i have ever heard.

I find religion very confusing & i find it strange that there is a specific kind of music for religious people.
But then again i find the world very confusing at times