Depping-what would you do?

[nash]

You're not in the band. Band members always have president. Even if it was a day before the show.

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='yorks5stringer' timestamp='1488053502' post='3245493']
So imagine you get a text from a band you regularly dep. for offering you two gigs on consecutive nights in around a months time.

3. Thank them for the one gig but point out they did ask you if you were free to do both, you cleared your diary for them and now you are going to be out of pocket?

4. Any other suggestions..?
[/quote]

I'd probably just take the hit, I mean part of the deal with being a dep is that your there to cope with some amount of uncertainty so that your clients dont have to, worst case I might ask for a small cancellation fee, I would certainly never force a band to use me in pref to their normal player when they actually are available, that would just be awkward all round.

[Funky Dunky]

I would gleefully do the one gig, and say nothing. It wouldn't even enter my head to moan about it. This is the nature of deputising, and I doubt they meant to muck you about. Unfortunately they are technically your employer, and as such you're at their mercy a wee bit. As a hired gun, you have to be flexible and complaining or turning them down flat would more likely see you painted as unreliable.

Did you turn down any gigs in order to play for these guys?

[yorks5stringer]

[quote name='Funky Dunky' timestamp='1488112990' post='3245888']
I would gleefully do the one gig, and say nothing. It wouldn't even enter my head to moan about it. This is the nature of deputising, and I doubt they meant to muck you about. Unfortunately they are technically your employer, and as such you're at their mercy a wee bit. As a hired gun, you have to be flexible and complaining or turning them down flat would more likely see you painted as unreliable.

Did you turn down any gigs in order to play for these guys?
[/quote]

No, but I might have had to....!

Edited February 26, 2017 by yorks5stringer

[Funky Dunky]

But you didn't, so you're still up one gig

Edited February 26, 2017 by Funky Dunky

[Bbiigg Kev]

Depends on if you have worked with them before, if not do the gig !!!

If you don't know them whose to say they might say they don't need you at all the day before, that's up to them but you have to be a pro and if they are going to f*** you about better to say shove it up your ass me thinks

[Mudpup]

[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1488118244' post='3245961']
There's some very strange opinions being aired here.

I'm gigging with six different bands this year, two of them being in a dep capacity.

I wouldn't have an issue with being cancelled, even at short notice. The band should retain their right to go out with their A Team so to speak. That's what I would expect as a band leader myself.

If you start getting arsey as a dep, the phone will stop ringing. That's not a very professional way to tout yourself as a go to dep. A dep's life is very much rough with the smooth. The gigs you do as dep that properly bail bands out of a hole far outweigh any they might let you down on. They are the ones they remember you for. IMHO, suck it up and knock the remaining gig that you have with them out of the park. Enjoy. There will be plenty of other gigs ahead of you I'm sure.
[/quote]

Exactly this.....spot on

From the other side, we had a guitar dep sorted for a gig next weekend (booked him months ago). I was pooching about on the gig sites a few days ago and noticed that his regular band had a gig booked on the same night.

Raised the alarm with our geetard who called the dep to find out what was going on. "Ah, sorry mate I've double booked, i can't do the dep for you"
Great! Panic stations for 24 hrs till we sourced another one. Its the second time he's done it and the last time......

[Rich]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1488060427' post='3245588']
IMO , once you accepted their offer they should have used you, not their regular guy.
[/quote]
Very definitely this.

[lowdown]

Unfortunately, you just take it on the chin and do a good job (this time).
Then in the future if they call again, enquire if this is likely to happened again.
If it is, politely decline the gig if it bothers you.

But, I must admit, in my life time of depping on shows and functions,
and indeed if I am getting cover for myself, folks generally have the attitude of...'You look after your dep/subs'.
Because you never know when you might need them at short notice.
If you are the regular and your other gig/show falls through, just swallow it and have a night off.
Nothing more embarrassing than asking for your gig back.
Unless you are scared of losing your gig, of course..

What I usually do if it's my gig gone tits up, is ring up the other player involved
and suggest that if he gets offered another gig on that day, maybe offer that to me,
or he does that gig and I do my original gig. (providing band leaders/fixers agree, of course).

Even if you are the original player, it never pays to be a tit in these situations.
You never know when you might want another gig yourself.

[skej21]

As someone who regularly deps, this all seems a bit silly to me. I regularly dep for certain bands and I get the call for two reasons;

1) I either know all the tunes already (in which case, the time period between gig and call is irrelevant, as I know what I'm playing) or
2) I don't know the tunes but they know I have the skills to busk them to a decent enough standard to help them out

You get paid well for depping a number of reasons (including this) so the only real perceived issue is time. i.e. Is it a problem that they call you 4 hours before a gig or 4 weeks before a gig? Are you flexible enough to be working around this? If not and you'd prefer a more rigid, long-term diary, I'd suggest that maybe depping isn't the best playing solution for you.

On the rare occasion the OP's situation has happened to me, I take what I can get. Equally, I have been offered a couple of gigs a few weeks in advance, one has been cancelled so I've booked in another gig and then they changed their minds again and came back but I was committed. I suggested a friend as an alternative dep and still played the second gig they had booked and everyone was happy and we've worked together a number of times since.

It [i]should [/i]work both ways.

[FinnDave]

A band I pay with occasionally had a gig on a date that I had a long-standing booking with The Wirebirds on. Other band booked a dep, then my Wirebirds gig was cancelled by the venue (private party booked in and no band required) so he paid the dep the full fee and I did the gig.

[yorks5stringer]

Well, there seem to be broadly 2 camps on this situation:

1. Be grateful for what you have got/ 'a bird in the hand'/'suck it up' or

2. Expect people to honour arrangements they have made with you.

I can't pretend to be so super busy depping that I've turned down other gigs for the original dates they required (and maybe if I had I would be in a stronger position) but still feel they have undertaken a contract with me (OK by text) and they should honour it.
It irks me that they feel it is OK to give back-word: if the No 1 Bassist was even remotely in the picture they should have said at the outset and I would have factored that in and been fine.

As it is, I'll probably get a couple more deps from them this year ( as No1 Bass works away from home quite a bit), but will say something (at the rehearsal they expect me to attend gratis) once I find out the full circumstances behind the decision.

Thanks to all for their input.

[blue]

[quote name='yorks5stringer' timestamp='1488068429' post='3245639']
There was a week between being offered two gigs and it being cut down to one.

Whilst I know the set, they have a habit of adding a few new tunes which I duly learn and then have to rehearse with them also.

If I am lucky enough to be offered further gigs again from them, I shall agree with the caveat that those gigs means just that.


Thanks for the feedback.
[/quote]

I'd love to pick up some decent playing DEP gigs on nights my band isn't gigging.

Nobody is going to call me.

Blue

[Huge Hands]

[quote name='yorks5stringer' timestamp='1488152349' post='3246406']
... if the No 1 Bassist was even remotely in the picture they should have said at the outset and I would have factored that in and been fine.
[/quote]

I don't know your situation at all, but it might be worth thinking of it from the other bassist's point of view.

I play regularly in a band, but have issues with availability due to having my son every other weekend (which the band have always known about). However, the band leader is ruthless and will often book gigs on weekends that I can't do, and then threatens me with a dep each time. This then involves me having to spend ages trying to swap weekends with my ex and trying to free myself up. Of course, it never got as far as actually booking anyone to dep (and letting them down) but perhaps this is what is happening here?

My own insecurities around the possibility of them gigging with and preferring a dep resulting in me losing my gig were what drove me to always comply, but this year I had to stop it as it was causing too many problems with my ex, and causing me guilt about putting the band before my son. I get depped for the first time in July - not looking forward to it!

[chris_b]

[quote name='Huge Hands' timestamp='1488188246' post='3246519']I get depped for the first time in July - not looking forward to it![/quote]

You should worry about your son first. It usually doesn't happen but getting kicked out is always on the cards. . . . if you let them. Be better so they don't want to loose you but sometimes there is nothing you can do about it.

I got chucked out of a band because the drummer wanted to play with someone else! He quit and his price for coming back was that the band leader fired me, which they did. Nice huh? That's bands for you.

I was also kicked out of a band so they could get the dep in permanently. That BL was a nasty piece of work, everyone else was either fired or quit within the next few months. You move on from those situations to better and nicer situations.

As I say if the band likes you and your playing they'll usually keep you. Make them like you.

[Huge Hands]

Totally agree Chris,

I've "been there, done that" with a lot of your examples, hence probably being a bit paranoid myself about losing my main regular gig. I am happy to be man enough about it if it does happen, especially if this bloke is more available for them, I would just prefer it didn't.

I was just trying to show York5stringer another example of why this might be happening - perhaps their normal bassist is also paranoid about losing his gig, so is trying to free himself up to not allow them to get comfortable with another player?

[yorks5stringer]

[quote name='Huge Hands' timestamp='1488191107' post='3246550']
Totally agree Chris,

I've "been there, done that" with a lot of your examples, hence probably being a bit paranoid myself about losing my main regular gig. I am happy to be man enough about it if it does happen, especially if this bloke is more available for them, I would just prefer it didn't.

I was just trying to show York5stringer another example of why this might be happening - perhaps their normal bassist is also paranoid about losing his gig, so is trying to free himself up to not allow them to get comfortable with another player?
[/quote]

The other bass is a freelance photographer and works away a lot and the band know and understand his issue. I guess he may be due back on the Friday of the first gig but he felt that he could now do the one on the Saturday. Anyway this is all conjecture, I'll find out for sure when I see them for a pre-gig rehearsal.

Edited February 27, 2017 by yorks5stringer

[beely]

We had a similar situation recently with our drummer. He had been off work with flu (proper flu, not the heavy cold variety) and I was concerned that he wouldn't be fit for an up-coming gig.

I got in touch with the drummer from my son's band, explained the circumstances, and asked him if he would be able to step in if necessary.
He said he would be happy to.
Not only that but he would be happy to do the gig or not do the gig, whatever the situation was on the day.

As it turned out, our own drummer was able to do the gig, although my fears about him not being physically able to cope were not far from reality.
He was absolutely knackered when we finished.

The band were all in agreement that the dep should be recompensed in some way, at least to cover his costs for the two rehearsals he did with us.
We decided to split the fee six ways instead of five, just to show our appreciation for his willingness to help us out.

Seemed the fairest thing to do.

[mcnach]

[quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1488054020' post='3245507']
Probably depends on the time delay between asking you to do both and then telling you only one is available. If you had both dates booked for a while then you have reason to be peeved, but if they let you know soon after booking you, I'd take the one available and be grateful.
[/quote]


this

[mcnach]

[quote name='Japhet' timestamp='1488105079' post='3245787']
Do the remaining gig but tell them that in future, once it's in your diary it's a done deal.
[/quote]

unfortunately flexibility gets you dep jobs, and an answer like that might just mark the point at which you no longer get called...

If it's a one off, I'd take it and smile.
If it's a repeat or if it happens again, I'd make a point of saying it's a bummer because I declined other offers to do this one job. Nicely. Hopefully they would then realise that their cancelling has an impact in you.

[mcnach]

[quote name='beely' timestamp='1488209697' post='3246807']
We had a similar situation recently with our drummer. He had been off work with flu (proper flu, not the heavy cold variety) and I was concerned that he wouldn't be fit for an up-coming gig.

I got in touch with the drummer from my son's band, explained the circumstances, and asked him if he would be able to step in if necessary.
He said he would be happy to.
Not only that but he would be happy to do the gig or not do the gig, whatever the situation was on the day.

As it turned out, our own drummer was able to do the gig, although my fears about him not being physically able to cope were not far from reality.
He was absolutely knackered when we finished.

The band were all in agreement that the dep should be recompensed in some way, at least to cover his costs for the two rehearsals he did with us.
We decided to split the fee six ways instead of five, just to show our appreciation for his willingness to help us out.

Seemed the fairest thing to do.
[/quote]

+1

great way to do it.

[mcnach]

[quote name='Huge Hands' timestamp='1488188246' post='3246519']
I don't know your situation at all, but it might be worth thinking of it from the other bassist's point of view.

I play regularly in a band, but have issues with availability due to having my son every other weekend (which the band have always known about). However, the band leader is ruthless and will often book gigs on weekends that I can't do, and then threatens me with a dep each time. This then involves me having to spend ages trying to swap weekends with my ex and trying to free myself up. Of course, it never got as far as actually booking anyone to dep (and letting them down) but perhaps this is what is happening here?

My own insecurities around the possibility of them gigging with and preferring a dep resulting in me losing my gig were what drove me to always comply, but this year I had to stop it as it was causing too many problems with my ex, and causing me guilt about putting the band before my son. I get depped for the first time in July - not looking forward to it!
[/quote]

I have been depped a few times on my main band. Never big gigs, but still I did not like it much. The dep in question is a friend of the band, I know him well enough and is a nice guy, but I didn't like the idea of booking a gig knowing that I was going to be away and not having the band 'fire in all cylinders' so to speak. He's a good player, but I was afraid they would not get enough practice and he wouldn't learn the songs well (all originals). It turns out he did pretty well. I still prefer the position where the band is the band, and we don't gig with substitutes. But now I like the fact that if I really have to not do a previously booked gig, and the guy is free, we can save the gig. My band will not change me for any dep.

Another band I'm playing with, a mix of covers and originals, I recently had to cancel on them... so I called a couple of friends, both better bassists than myself, and the band was happy to pick one whom they kind of knew a bit. He's seriously good. Much better than myself. I was happy with that because I like the guys in the band and I'm the one letting them down, so I like it if I can give them a guy who will do a great job and will also be fun to have around. I know they will not turn around and say "you know what? this guy plays better than you... so we offered him the position, would you like to cover for him when he's not available?" They won't.

The fact that you worry you might get substituted permanently doesn't seem right. If you are in the band, I am sure it is for a reason. If you were not suitable, they would replace you, dep or no dep. So I bet you're suitable. Your ability to commit to gigs is complicated because of family issues. In your place I'd be worried about being replaced if I am the person who is preventing them from booking gigs or causing cancellations. So the fact that you have someone who can replace you *when you're not available* sounds like a good thing.
If your fears, however, come because somehow you've been 'bullied' a bit and you're trying to comply... then I'd think that it's probably not the band for you and I would not wait to be replaced, and look for another band with more reasonable people.