Cat Burrito Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Worth remembering that in some circles the bass guitar isn't a proper instrument... a fretted bass? Whatever next! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziphoblat Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1488226966' post='3247044'] I went to a dinner and dance on Saturday night. They had a disco. Standard stuff. Play the tunes, not chat between tracks, no introductions to tunes. At the end of the evening the DJ thanked us "for being a great audience." The mind boggles. [/quote] Not really seeing what laptop DJ's have to do with a thread about electronic music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike257 Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 [quote name='markstuk' timestamp='1488219189' post='3246925'] I'm sure it was enjoyable as a spectacle, and there are many other forms of immersive entertainment that have huge artistic value - however it's not a gig IMHO... But I suspect this is an argument that has no right answer, only opinions... Now lets bring in the "backing track argument" and we'll be at 21 pages before we know it... :-) [/quote] The thing with shows at that level is that it very much has to be about the spectacle. You get to a certain size of show (particularly arena stuff) and it becomes next to impossible to develop any kind of intimate connection with an audience in the same way as you can at a venue. The scale of the venue (and the little stick men you can barely see on stage) necessitates something more visual, which is where the lights, creative use of video content etc really comes in to play these days. That can mean that the show is less spontaneous as productions of that complexity can't really be "busked" from a techy point of view, and a lot of things are timecoded, synchronised and ran the same way each night for consistency, but the overall experience from an audience perspective is arguably more engaging and memorable. I'm all for "band on stage playing their songs well" as being the only real requirement of a good show, but there's some brilliant creative people out there who really elevate the visual elements and help turn a big gig in to something really special. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 (edited) [quote name='Ziphoblat' timestamp='1488227856' post='3247075'] Not really seeing what laptop DJ's have to do with a thread about electronic music. [/quote] It's about what constitutes a musical performance. If you're running a preprogrammed sequencer, is that a performance, even if you originally played the sequence in live to record it or could play that part live? At what point does a backing track stop being a creative performance and become just a rendition of a preprepared song. And does it matter. We didn't go to watch a DJ perform, he seemed to think we did. . Edited February 27, 2017 by TimR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrevorR Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 No worries about what instruments are used to make music... some electronica I don't care for, some I do. But then name any other genre. Some rock/blues/indie/jazz I don't care for , some I do. However, I do wonder whether some modern recording techniques are having a negative effect on the quality of the music we're hearing and which is being produced. There's over-compression for a start in the never ending search for more punch in the recording - and in that direction lies the dreaded loudness wars and CDs/MP3s which are unlistenable irrespective of the quality of the songwriting and performance (Alex, Geddy and Neil, I'm looking at you! Sadly). Or how about the ease of cutting and pasting in ProTools which creates a more homogenised product. Back in the day if you had a song with a structure like, say, AABABACABB each of those verses, choruses, the middle 8 and the intro and outro had to be played individually by a real person. That meant, however tight and disciplined the band or the producer the song would be littered with micro-inconsistencies in in timing, feel, tone, pitch (let's not get into Autotune!). They may not have been consciously perceptible as "errors" but they would have meant that no two sections of the track were exactly the same. As I get older I'm more convinced that matters to us as human beings on some sort of conscious level and that we can tell there's something artificial about tracks where the ideal verse and chorus are cut and pasted across the song. The homogeneity maybe removes the soul from the music? Three chums were in a girl country band called "Hummingbird" and did a song called "Pearls" about nostalgia, vinyl nostalgia and songs being the soundtrack of our lives... One of the lyrics seemed quite poignant in this context. It went... "The say that the new stuff don't sound like the old stuff. It's digital and sampled, perfect and complete. But where's the singer breathing, where's the engineer sneezing, where's the tape hissing and the drummer's missing beat". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 Totally agree there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 I'm not a fan of Techno, Hip Hop, House, Classical, Opera, Brass Marching Bands and a few other styles. And because of that I don't really mind which instruments are used. . . or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 So, no controversy here. Epic fail on the spleen-venting front. We really must try harder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1488216401' post='3246891'] I've been involved in the house scene and TV advertising and using virtual instruments in no way frees you from the obligation to come up with good ideas and record and produce them in a creative way. I like playing bass in a 'real' band, but anyone who says producing electronic music is in some way 'easier' or 'unreal' is talking out of their arse. [/quote] I have no idea if it's easier or not. I'm 100℅ sure it's different. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazzbass Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 DJs are the real talent. the way they press "Play" on their laptop is amazing, what talent ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Dare Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 [quote name='bazztard' timestamp='1488255505' post='3247242'] DJs are the real talent. the way they press "Play" on their laptop is amazing, what talent ! [/quote] Dead right. The way they understand "beats" leaves me slack jawed with amazement, too. How can anyone just know how to find the first beat in a bar without consulting a music textbook? Much respeck, bro, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojo Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Just because potentially anyone could do something to a certain level doesn't mean we should knock those that have passion and have developed a craft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1488216401' post='3246891'] I like playing bass in a 'real' band, but anyone who says producing electronic music is in some way 'easier' or 'unreal' is talking out of their arse. [/quote] Completely agree. I would suggest that anyone who doesn't think that electronic or sample-based music isn't "real" should have a go at creating some of their own, or if that's beyond them, then at least make an arrangement/cover of their favourite song. You can get all the kit you need for less than the cost of an average bass guitar so there's no excuse for not having a go at proving me wrong. It's not like it was when I started getting into synthesisers in the early 80s when you'd need at least £200 to get one cheap monophonic synth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpondonBassed Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 [quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1488238179' post='3247210'] So, no controversy here. Epic fail on the spleen-venting front. We really must try harder [/quote] [url="http://patient.info/health/the-spleen"]http://patient.info/health/the-spleen[/url] Who's going to mop up after a serious vent with blood and yukky stuff? I'm going out right away to buy some galoshes. [attachment=239310:spleen.png] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpondonBassed Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 (edited) [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1488216401' post='3246891'] I like playing bass in a 'real' band, but anyone who says producing electronic music is in some way 'easier' or 'unreal' is talking out of their arse. [/quote] I'd like to point out that talking out of one's arse is not yet recognised as a valid way of creating speech. Do not despair. I am quite sure that words formed by educated anuses will become more widely recognised as a valid and worthy part of today's culture and that the Oxford English dictionary will happily include them on next years revision of their scratch and sniff dictionary (Chav edition). Edited February 28, 2017 by SpondonBassed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barking Spiders Posted February 28, 2017 Author Share Posted February 28, 2017 Good see peeps here are much more open-minded than many others e.g. on amazon.co.uk's Music and Classical for a fr'instance. Seems to me those with the more closed minds have probably only heard the utter gash that passes for chart music and EDM seeing that stuff like Amon Tobin, Autechre, Boards of Canada, Squarepusher, Orbital, Fila Brazillia etc. never gets radio or TV coverage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 [quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1488238179' post='3247210'] So, no controversy here. Epic fail on the spleen-venting front. We really must try harder [/quote] Sorry Skank. I tried but the hate didn't come! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROConnell Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 [quote name='lojo' timestamp='1488265470' post='3247260'] Just because potentially anyone could do something to a certain level doesn't mean we should knock those that have passion and have developed a craft. [/quote] +1 Totally agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 [quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1488268618' post='3247282'] I'd like to point out that talking out of one's arse is not yet recognised as a valid way of creating speech. [/quote] Yes, very true. Although, it was possible to recognise a tune out of the arse, of a certain French, Professional Flatulist. And not forgetting, the glorious arsehole tunes from 'pro' gigging farter, 'Mr Methane'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
la bam Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 (edited) I spent years in band where everything was the standard drums, bass, guitars, vocals, and everything was done live. I was always against backing tracks etc. I am now in a band doing dance covers and we are using click tracks, samples and triggers, and its completely changed my mind! Triggering samples does take skill, firstly to get a sample to fit, then work out what time to play it, and play it in time is trickier than it looks. We also have a self made track in the background that contains effects that are impossible to do live, so we have to play to the track in a full band set up (drums, bass, keys, vocals), so that the fx come in at the correct place. Its a lot harder than you'd think, and very unforgiving if you get it wrong! I also use different bass sounds throughout, from vintage sounds, to modern treble sounds, to synth sounds and detuned sub octave sounds with distortion, and that is very confusing playing wise regarding the attack and decay of the sounds. Ie some are much more responsive and take more controlling. It adds a lot to the performance, but allows us to play a genre of music we wouldn't be able to do justice in a standard set up. The trick is to do enough and show enough playing so that the audience doesn't question whether or not it is an issue. Edited February 28, 2017 by la bam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markstuk Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 [quote name='lowdown' timestamp='1488275742' post='3247396'] Yes, very true. Although, it was possible to recognise a tune out of the arse, of a certain French, Professional Flatulist. And not forgetting, the glorious arsehole tunes from 'pro' gigging farter, 'Mr Methane'. [/quote] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_P%C3%A9tomane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 (edited) [quote name='markstuk' timestamp='1488277783' post='3247419'] [url="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_P%C3%A9tomane"]https://en.wikipedia...e_P%C3%A9tomane[/url] [/quote] Indeed. I believe there is a performance on the Da Tube somewhere. Edited February 28, 2017 by lowdown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbayne Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 (edited) This was a big hit some 44 years ago. All done on a Moog I believe. Not a 'real instrument' to be heard. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX_lnmb1Moo Edited February 28, 2017 by Hobbayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpondonBassed Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 [quote name='Hobbayne' timestamp='1488284354' post='3247483'] This was a big hit some 44 years ago. All done on a Moog I believe. Not a 'real instrument' to be heard. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX_lnmb1Moo[/media] [/quote] Many thanks. That's sent me back to the age of ten! Happy days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 [quote name='Hobbayne' timestamp='1488284354' post='3247483'] This was a big hit some 44 years ago. All done on a Moog I believe. Not a 'real instrument' to be heard. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX_lnmb1Moo[/media] [/quote] Don't drums count as "real"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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