Sight reading + Fretless

[Davebassics]

After 13 years playing bass, and multiple attempts at learning to read music I have never had the discipline to accomplish it. My latest attempt as been the most successful. I can read/play crotchets at around 60bpm for around 16 bars .... only in 3 or 4 keys so far! So by no means am I anywhere near the level I would like to achieve but I am currently working at my personal best level.

I pretty much only play fretless when I practice by my self. My two problems are as follows:
[list=1]
[*]When practicing reading on my fretless, my intonation can to drift over time. I start to play sharper after a certain about of time, 8-10 bars if I had to guess.
[*]When I have to move fretting position to reach low/high notes, I often fall apart because I take my eye off the music and look at my fingers. The time it takes me to refind my position in the music usually leads me to miss a beat or two.
[/list]

Does anyone have any advice on how I can improve on the above points?

[Grangur]

Yes, develop a skill for both eye balls to work independent of one another. Its helps tremendously.

[franzbassist]

You've just got to keep at it. Start slowly with simple pieces and build it up, which is what you seem to be doing. Scales are boring, but so useful in this context.

[chris_b]

Put in the hours to get both right.

[Steve Woodcock]

Position your music stand off to your left (presuming you are right handed) rather than straight in front of you, that way you minimise the distance your eyes have to jump from the page to your fretting hand.

[Davebassics]

[quote name='Stickman' timestamp='1488471071' post='3249252']
Position your music stand off to your left (presuming you are right handed) rather than straight in front of you, that way you minimise the distance your eyes have to jump from the page to your fretting hand.
[/quote]

Good shout. I don't have a music stand, I just use my desk. Its going to be worth getting one.

The hours will come. It's difficult to fit them in sometimes but that's life for you!

[Trueno]

[quote name='Davebassics' timestamp='1488475071' post='3249303']


Good shout. I don't have a music stand, I just use my desk. Its going to be worth getting one.

The hours will come. It's difficult to fit them in sometimes but that's life for you!
[/quote]

Get a proper music stand. I spent years with one of those nasty collapsable ones that keep trapping your fingers when you try to adjust it. About two years ago I bought a proper heavy duty one... money well spent.

Edited March 2, 2017 by Trueno

[cb1]

[quote name='Stickman' timestamp='1488471071' post='3249252']
Position your music stand off to your left (presuming you are right handed) rather than straight in front of you, that way you minimise the distance your eyes have to jump from the page to your fretting hand.
[/quote]

Good advice, but I'm not sure trying to learn to read on fretless is the way forward. It would best to stick to fretted as reading on fretless is difficult even for accomplished players and readers.

Edited March 2, 2017 by cb1

[Davebassics]

[quote name='cb1' timestamp='1488478675' post='3249343']
Good advice, but I'm not sure trying to learn to read on fretless is the way forward. It would best to stick to fretted as reading on fretless is difficult even for accomplished players and readers.
[/quote]

I've no doubt that I could make things easier by practicing on fretted. My attitude has always been that progress on fretless translates to fretted better than the other way around. Maybe I will start splitting the reading practice between the two.

[paul_c2]

Playing (and reading music on) fretless is no harder than playing on double bass/cello/viola/violin/trombone/french horn etc, but obviously a step harder than fretted bass. So its worthwhile taking a logical approach to it, for example take a leaf out of double bassists study material and read up on what "1st position" and "2nd position" is, then find some music which is graded to only use (eg) 1st position, then slightly more difficult, then the half positions etc. Break it up too, approach "shifting" as a separate skill to learn.

If you perceive yourself as slipping in intonation as a piece goes on, how are you determining this? If you're playing along with others then its simply down to listening to both yourself and the others while playing. If its based on seeing your hand move up and up, then don't be afraid to add tape to the neck, or dots, or whatever to help with getting a solid and consistently accurate hand/finger position.

[Trueno]

[quote name='paul_c2' timestamp='1488577866' post='3250315']
Playing (and reading music on) fretless is no harder than playing on double bass/cello/viola/violin/trombone/french horn etc, but obviously a step harder than fretted bass. So its worthwhile taking a logical approach to it, for example take a leaf out of double bassists study material and read up on what "1st position" and "2nd position" is, then find some music which is graded to only use (eg) 1st position, then slightly more difficult, then the half positions etc. Break it up too, approach "shifting" as a separate skill to learn.

If you perceive yourself as slipping in intonation as a piece goes on, how are you determining this? If you're playing along with others then its simply down to listening to both yourself and the others while playing. If its based on seeing your hand move up and up, then don't be afraid to add tape to the neck, or dots, or whatever to help with getting a solid and consistently accurate hand/finger position.
[/quote]

Excellent advice this!

[Davebassics]

[quote name='paul_c2' timestamp='1488577866' post='3250315']
Playing (and reading music on) fretless is no harder than playing on double bass/cello/viola/violin/trombone/french horn etc, but obviously a step harder than fretted bass. So its worthwhile taking a logical approach to it, for example take a leaf out of double bassists study material and read up on what "1st position" and "2nd position" is, then find some music which is graded to only use (eg) 1st position, then slightly more difficult, then the half positions etc. Break it up too, approach "shifting" as a separate skill to learn.

If you perceive yourself as slipping in intonation as a piece goes on, how are you determining this? If you're playing along with others then its simply down to listening to both yourself and the others while playing. If its based on seeing your hand move up and up, then don't be afraid to add tape to the neck, or dots, or whatever to help with getting a solid and consistently accurate hand/finger position.
[/quote]

Yes, fantastic advice thank you. I am determining the intonation slipping simply by looking at the fretboard. Usually when I have to reach an out of position note. I'm usually inbetween frets.

I've been useing a double bass book a little to aid with my reading and a bit of theory but there hasn't been a big emphasis on position yet. I'll skip through a little further and get familliar with it.

[ambient]

With regard to the "only 3 or 4 keys" part of your post. It might be an idea to brush up on what accidental are in each key, and just remember them. That way if you're playing something in say E major, just knowing that each C, D, F and G are all sharp helps loads.

[paul_c2]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1490286671' post='3263980']
With regard to the "only 3 or 4 keys" part of your post. It might be an idea to brush up on what accidental are in each key, and just remember them. That way if you're playing something in say E major, just knowing that each C, D, F and G are all sharp helps loads.
[/quote]

If anything, learn the circle of fifths - and how to apply it to 1) knowing the order of sharps and flats 2) knowing what sharps/flats are in what key. Of course, the circle of fifths will help with many other aspects of music (theory) too, so its something worth learning by rote once, then being able to apply it in various situations.