Action lowered, better player

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1489049856' post='3253917']

I find that as well, if I am not loud enough TURN IT UP!

seriously, I have found that I needed to dig harder but that was because my bass seemed underpowered (either EQ or more commonly just volume) turning up a bit fixed that everytime. Digging in is good for effect here and there but if you need to wrestle with the bass for a whole gig that just makes playing more difficult, for me.
[/quote]problem with that is, just because you can't hear it doesn't mean you need to turn up, I'm sure we've all played gigs where it's difficult to hear yourself but out in the crowd you're well loud enough (had one of those myself last week) under those circumstances it's very difficult to stop yourself playing harder

[radiophonic]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1489053424' post='3253952']
problem with that is, just because you can't hear it doesn't mean you need to turn up, I'm sure we've all played gigs where it's difficult to hear yourself but out in the crowd you're well loud enough (had one of those myself last week) under those circumstances it's very difficult to stop yourself playing harder
[/quote]

It's more a gradual thing live. By the end of the set the singer and the drummer are physically much more warmed up so will push it more and the faster songs are near the end too. Everyone is playing harder by then. Soft + loud sounds very different to playing hard. I probably just have crap technique too.

[Ghost_Bass]

I use very low action and play very soft, i get better dynamic control over my sound and tone and i don't get tired while playing even playing faster lines but i must say that this depends a lot on the bass in question.

Basses considered "hi-fi" or "boutique" 'esque like my TRB or many similar (and better) can have a very low action and retain the note punch and definition (i use medium gauge strings .045/.065/.080/.100/.130 to be able to attack a bit harder without fret buzz) but if you pick up a standard J or P you'll find out that you need to dig in a bit more to get that classic tone that we all love to hear and that needs a action that's just a tad higher.

Good for you to have made the move, it will make you a better player as you'll learn to have more control over attack, dynamics and right hand placement (tone). Enjoy

[Rikki_Sixx]

I've never really done a proper set-up on any of my basses (in fact years ago before I understood what I was doing I managed to introduce fret-buzz on every string), but my action is probably about 4mm around the 12th fret. I'm swapping my new bridge in this week and hoping to get that action way down to make things a little easier on myself! Good to hear what everyone else has theirs set to.

[mcnach]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1489053424' post='3253952']
problem with that is, just because you can't hear it doesn't mean you need to turn up, I'm sure we've all played gigs where it's difficult to hear yourself but out in the crowd you're well loud enough (had one of those myself last week) under those circumstances it's very difficult to stop yourself playing harder
[/quote]

if you dig in to make yourself heard you're achieving the same effect: louder, so the result is the same. If it's not a matter of volume I'm sure you can EQ yourself a little differently.

Digging in for every single thing you play just doesn't give any room for dynamics. Fine if you're playing fast punk, but it's not how I'd like to play at least.

[Kiwi]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1488792223' post='3251697']
Everyone is different. I saw Nathan East, one of my favourite bassists, at GAK and he had a very even and light playing style. Every note was perfect even when he was messing about. When I saw Victor Wooten at DV247 his playing style was very "agricultural". It was a surprise to me how rough he was when playing. Almost attacking the bass.
[/quote]
lol I once watched Jonas Hellborg demo EBS amps and the way he grabbed at his instrument could only be described as feral. His hands were grasping at the strings like they were pulling out entrails.

[discreet]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1489063880' post='3254055']
Digging in for every single thing you play just doesn't give any room for dynamics. Fine if you're playing fast punk, but it's not how I'd like to play at least.
[/quote]

It took me ages to relax enough at gigs to play without thrashing the crap out of my bass. You're right about dynamics. It's good to have 'thrashing the crap' as an option, however. Depending on material, context and genre, as you say.

[Beer of the Bass]

I get confused about what's considered high. I think of my bass as being set quite low at the moment, at 2mm (G) to 2.5mm (E) at the 12th fret. But reading through this thread, that might be considered high? I think double bass has messed up my perception of this stuff...

[Bridgehouse]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1489084978' post='3254290']
I get confused about what's considered high. I think of my bass as being set quite low at the moment, at 2mm (G) to 2.5mm (E) at the 12th fret. But reading through this thread, that might be considered high? I think double bass has messed up my perception of this stuff...
[/quote]


That's not high. High is putting your finger on the string and not really knowing exactly which fret it's going to land on 2 seconds later...

[dmccombe7]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1489084978' post='3254290']
I get confused about what's considered high. I think of my bass as being set quite low at the moment, at 2mm (G) to 2.5mm (E) at the 12th fret. But reading through this thread, that might be considered high? I think double bass has messed up my perception of this stuff...
[/quote]

That's approx where my action was but decided to try dropping it and playing safe i dropped it to 2.2 on the E at the 17th rather than 12th fret as per Fender guidelines. Did check at 12th fret and not much difference in height to be honest. If ok at next rehearsal will drop to 2mm on E.
Fender guideline is 2mm (+/- 0.4mm) on all 4 strings.

Bass def feels a lot easier to play at home and no fret buzz altho i am playing a bit lighter than at rehearsal.

Dave

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='dmccombe7' timestamp='1489138193' post='3254600']
That's approx where my action was but decided to try dropping it and playing safe i dropped it to 2.2 on the E at the 17th rather than 12th fret as per Fender guidelines. Did check at 12th fret and not much difference in height to be honest. If ok at next rehearsal will drop to 2mm on E.
Fender guideline is 2mm (+/- 0.4mm) on all 4 strings.

Bass def feels a lot easier to play at home and no fret buzz altho i am playing a bit lighter than at rehearsal.

Dave
[/quote] I'm assuming you're all using a steel rule to measure string height, well I can't tell .2mm accurately even with a magnifying glass, if anybody's using a different method please tell, as said before I use a pound coin under the 17th fret, different coin widths are available.

[Ghost_Bass]

I never use measures. I lower the action until fretbuzz (normaly with the strings sitting on the frets ) then gradually raise it until it stops, for my playing. Never measured the height, next time i change strings i'll try to remember to put a ruller on it.

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1489144690' post='3254696']
I never use measures. I lower the action until fretbuzz (normaly with the strings sitting on the frets ) then gradually raise it until it stops, for my playing. Never measured the height, next time i change strings i'll try to remember to put a ruller on it.
[/quote]this is the obvious way and it's what I did to start with but it takes a long time, once I'd established where my string height was I measured it and this is where I found a pound coin just slide under the string at the 17th fret, so on my recently acquired Jazz I had a good starting point and found out if it was a decent neck, my first VM Jazz wasn't so I moved it on

[markdavid]

[quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1489144690' post='3254696']
I never use measures. I lower the action until fretbuzz (normaly with the strings sitting on the frets ) then gradually raise it until it stops, for my playing. Never measured the height, next time i change strings i'll try to remember to put a ruller on it.
[/quote] This method is ok but I like having measurements to make sure my basses all play consistently. My method with new basses is that I lower the action on the strings until I start getting a little buzz on some of the frets, then I adjust the truss rod slightly, buzz in the first few frets I add a little relief, buzz above the 12th fret I reduce the relief, if neck adjustment does not make any difference to fret buzz then I know the frets are less than perfect and likely need a fret dress

[mcnach]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1489142333' post='3254668']
I'm assuming you're all using a steel rule to measure string height, well I can't tell .2mm accurately even with a magnifying glass, if anybody's using a different method please tell, as said before I use a pound coin under the 17th fret, different coin widths are available.
[/quote]

a set of gauges like those used for car spark plug gaps are useful

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1489148489' post='3254742']


a set of gauges like those used for car spark plug gaps are useful
[/quote]

I use a couple of Dunlop picks stacked up as crude feeler gauges, since I seem to have loads lying around and the thickness is marked on them.

[markdavid]

I use one of these [url="https://www.amazon.co.uk/Zuanjia-Function-Electric-Acoustic-Millimeters/dp/B017IFV3E6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1489148991&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=String+Action+Ruler+Gauge&psc=1"]https://www.amazon.co.uk/Zuanjia-Function-Electric-Acoustic-Millimeters/dp/B017IFV3E6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1489148991&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=String+Action+Ruler+Gauge&psc=1[/url]

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1489148489' post='3254742']

a set of gauges like those used for car spark plug gaps are useful
[/quote]feeler gauges, trouble is you need a load of them together to get 2 or 3mm and they tend to spring apart not a problem when you doing spark plugs but it is when it's easy to move one of the things you're measuring, like a string, they're really designed for narrower gaps, well that's what I've found anyway

[dmccombe7]

[quote name='markdavid' timestamp='1489149024' post='3254749']
I use one of these [url="https://www.amazon.co.uk/Zuanjia-Function-Electric-Acoustic-Millimeters/dp/B017IFV3E6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1489148991&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=String+Action+Ruler+Gauge&psc=1"]https://www.amazon.c...ler+Gauge&psc=1[/url]
[/quote]

I forgot i had one of those.
Used a set of digital engineering calipers and feeler gauges. Bought the digital calipers from Aldi for £9 few weeks ago. Great buy and really handy for various things.

Dave

[dmccombe7]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1489142333' post='3254668']
I'm assuming you're all using a steel rule to measure string height, well I can't tell .2mm accurately even with a magnifying glass, if anybody's using a different method please tell, as said before I use a pound coin under the 17th fret, different coin widths are available.
[/quote]

Set of digital engineering calipers that i bought from Aldi for £9 few weeks ago.
I found it easier to measure the string width first then from the top of the string down to the first fret and deduct the string width will give an accurate string height but its probably a bit extreme for most people. I always had calipers available from my place of work so it was just a lot easier to borrow them for a night.

Other than that i would use feeler gauges. Before that i would literally use a steel ruler and judge as best as i could to nearest 0.5mm

Dave
Dave

[project_c]

Has anyone seen Janek Gwizdala talk about string height? He likes his action crazy high, as does Patitucci, and of course Jamerson was famous for it. JG was saying he gets a better sound and better feel with high action, but he doesn't elaborate much on how. I'm guessing you can dig in more without hitting frets, but i'm not sure how your actual tone would improve. Maybe less boomy if you're further away from the pickups, but then you could always lower them too.

Maybe playing upright gives you a different perspective on all this, but I still don't get how these guys can play at that level with such high action.

[inthedoghouse]

Pretty much as low as possible here and I have a light touch too

[pfretrock]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1489155357' post='3254804']
feeler gauges, trouble is you need a load of them together to get 2 or 3mm and they tend to spring apart not a problem when you doing spark plugs but it is when it's easy to move one of the things you're measuring, like a string, they're really designed for narrower gaps, well that's what I've found anyway
[/quote]
Motorist gauges are too thin.
I've got one of these, which start at 1.0mm and go in 0.05mm steps, so you only need a few. Not sure where I got it from, been in tool box for years.
Probably just as easy to guess!. I go as low as possible without buzz. Job done.
[url="http://www.countyindustrial.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=1_19&product_id=3253"]http://www.countyind...product_id=3253[/url]

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1489142333' post='3254668']
I'm assuming you're all using a steel rule to measure string height, well I can't tell .2mm accurately even with a magnifying glass, [u]if anybody's using a different method please tell,[/u] as said before I use a pound coin under the 17th fret, different coin widths are available.
[/quote]

Feeler gauges. Halfords should do you a decent set.

[mcnach]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1489155357' post='3254804']
feeler gauges, trouble is you need a load of them together to get 2 or 3mm and they tend to spring apart not a problem when you doing spark plugs but it is when it's easy to move one of the things you're measuring, like a string, they're really designed for narrower gaps, well that's what I've found anyway
[/quote]

I have to admit to never having used them, but I saw a guy recommending them and sounded like a good idea. He was measuring the gap between the bottom of the string at the top of the fret *while fretting at a high fret... 15th or 17th, somewhere around there. Then the gap is a lot lower than 2-3mm. It certainly is on my basses and I don't have a particularly low action.

I like what several others have commented here using picks, or finding a coin whose height fits just right... I have never measured my heights... I tend to just go by feel, when it feels right, I stop messing with it but I like the idea of a more systematic approach.

I also want to get into fret levelling. So far that's one aspect I've always left to the pros. But it really isn't such a big deal and I should invest on some tools and practice. Anyway, that's another entirely different matter!