How to achieve an action like this?

[Bridgehouse]

I think action is subjective. And it depends on the bass. And your technique. And the strings. And the direction of the wind etc..

I've been playing with the action on my 64 P recently. The exercise was to see what I preferred playing wise and tone wise.

I swapped the TIs out for Chromes as I wanted a slightly higher tension feel - I figured I would probly go back to the TIs after a while.

It's proven to be an interesting exercise. The board is now dead flat, which is surprising as it's a 7.5" radius and vintage frets. However, setting it flat, the best tone/playability action seems to be around 2mm E and 1.7 G - with the A and D at around 1.8 ish. Any lower and the tone just drops out a touch, any higher and it doesn't feel as good to play.

Funnily enough I'm sticking with the Chromes and the action as it is as I'm liking the sound I'm getting. I'd describe it as a medium-low action and it seems to fit this particular bass just fine.

Horses/courses and YMMV etc..

[Greg.Bassman]

[quote name='Marc S' timestamp='1491828351' post='3275647']
In the video to which the OP posted a link - Mark king really is bending those strings a lot
It may be mainly down to the (light) gauge of the strings - but it may also be down to the make / brand

Personally, I'm not a huge fan of flatwound strings (despite also playing DB) but some wise words from flats players on here pointed me in the direction of Thomastik Infeldt flats (TI's). I wanted some flats for my fretless, and tried some used TI's bought from someone on this forum...

I couldn't (and still can't) get over just how low tension TI's are Don't know if MK is using them in that video - it's hard to tell, as even the sound will be processed and EQ'ed by the engineers on the sound desk.

EDIT: I used to obsess about trying to get as low an action as possible - but I've since discovered, I actually don't really like the action too low. I've got several basses, and some are set up a bit differently - and I like playing different styles, on different basses, but mostly, I'd like to be able to pick up almost any bass, and not worry about how it's set up....
[/quote]

[quote name='Bridgehouse' timestamp='1491832436' post='3275704']
I think action is subjective. And it depends on the bass. And your technique. And the strings. And the direction of the wind etc..

I've been playing with the action on my 64 P recently. The exercise was to see what I preferred playing wise and tone wise.

I swapped the TIs out for Chromes as I wanted a slightly higher tension feel - I figured I would probly go back to the TIs after a while.

It's proven to be an interesting exercise. The board is now dead flat, which is surprising as it's a 7.5" radius and vintage frets. However, setting it flat, the best tone/playability action seems to be around 2mm E and 1.7 G - with the A and D at around 1.8 ish. Any lower and the tone just drops out a touch, any higher and it doesn't feel as good to play.

Funnily enough I'm sticking with the Chromes and the action as it is as I'm liking the sound I'm getting. I'd describe it as a medium-low action and it seems to fit this particular bass just fine.

Horses/courses and YMMV etc..
[/quote]

Hi both. Cheers for the feedback.

I slap a fair bit as well as fingerstyle, so I'm not sure flats/chromes would be suited for my situation. Definitely good to know though, so thanks again!

[4000]

I believe the TI rounds are pretty low tension too, although not so much as the flats. Or if you're pretty set on a particular gauge of string, you could always get someone like Newtone to make you a custom low tension set (they also do a standard lower tension round core string, as I believe do Status).

Low action is all relative, but I like my action very low indeed, and as straight a neck as possible. But then I both pluck and fret very lightly, unless I'm purposely digging in. I've met very few people who prefer lower action than me, although my two main (vintage) basses are slightly higher than I would normally choose for various reasons. I use pretty much the same gauges as the OP.

As others have said, it's really all down to the mechanics of the instrument - i.e. level frets etc - and the way you play, how hard you pluck and / or fret. Having said that Flea historically had extremely low action - at one point I believe his tech said it was something like 1mm at the 12th E, although it's gone up a bit since - and he hammers his bass (listen to the solo'd bass tracks from Blood Sugar on Youtube, it's virtually all fret buzz - sounds great to me!). One other important thing is to choose a luthier for your setup who isn't averse to you using very low action. Some - Chris May springs to mind, as we've had a couple of conversations about it - really aren't keen on it. Others, like Martin Petersen, who does all the work I can't do myself, are quite happy to go with it if it suits you.

I remember a mate sending his old Status to Rob Green for some work; I think it went twice. Both times it came back with an action you could drive a bus under, so we had to redo the setup completely. Apparently Rob said that when he set up one of John Entwistle's basses John took one look at it and said "oh, it'll go much lower than that!" John used to joke that he liked his action "on the other side of the frets".

FWIW Mark King's first 2 Alembics were 34" scale and then he got 2 x 32" scale ones. His Kingbasses are 32".

[Twincam]

Ah Action my fav topic lol.

First rule of low action is to be able to actually play a low action. To play with that more delicate touch constantly and have that feel. So even when digging in its actually done very gently. Also there will be fret buzz on occasion go listen to low action players in isolation there's always some noise.

The next step is to have a bass well setup obviously. With enough time and effort any bass can be set up to play low action.
Gradual roll off of the board or frets is also good. So is having the correct neck angle to begin with.

[Twincam]

[quote name='Manton Customs' timestamp='1489433049' post='3256906']
Sadly, there is no easy trick to be able to play like your bass heroes....other than practice and practice some more. I'm sure the likes of Mark King could play really well on a crap bass with a poor setup. That's not to say setup is not important...it is. But you may be overlooking the fact that you're already there setup wise...this observation is based on your other threads where you say your luthier has already setup and addressed the frets on your bass. By all means take it to another luthier, but don't expect miracles.

I'd also add, there really isn't any way to accurately judge action by watching a video like that, a half MM is a big deal in setup, but certainly not visible in a video like that. There's also rarely a point in the video where he's not fretting/muting/popping a note, which also makes it difficult to properly judge. Again I'm not saying his action isn't low, I'm sure it is. But it's not going to be outside the boundaries of what any good tech/luthier can achieve.
[/quote]

Good post!

[Marc S]

[quote name='Twincam' timestamp='1491932459' post='3276614']
Ah Action my fav topic lol.

First rule of low action is to be able to actually play a low action. To play with that more delicate touch constantly and have that feel. So even when digging in its actually done very gently. Also there will be fret buzz on occasion go listen to low action players in isolation there's always some noise....

[/quote]

Yes indeed. The odd thing I find about a low action set-up, and related "fret buzz" - is that on some basses, I can really hear fret buzz when amplified, and on other basses, it's less noticeable. I'm really not sure why this should be? I mean, it sort of defies logic really, doesn't it? If you get fret buzz on two basses, if you hear it clearly when amplified on one, you should surely hear it to the same level on another bass... discuss! lol

[project_c]

[quote name='Marc S' timestamp='1491983523' post='3276871']


Yes indeed. The odd thing I find about a low action set-up, and related "fret buzz" - is that on some basses, I can really hear fret buzz when amplified, and on other basses, it's less noticeable. I'm really not sure why this should be? I mean, it sort of defies logic really, doesn't it? If you get fret buzz on two basses, if you hear it clearly when amplified on one, you should surely hear it to the same level on another bass... discuss! lol
[/quote]

The type of frets and the condition they're in makes a bit of difference. I have an old P with worn down frets, it doesn't buzz unless the action is around 1mm at the 17th fret, which is too low even for me.

Also new roundwounds, and leaving the tone wide open will probably make it more audible.

[ba55i5t]

I'm surprised I haven't seen more posts about using a neck shim or a neck tilt function. If your relief is set to .012 then you should be able to muck around with the saddles to get it as low as possible. If you need to, you can put a shim under the neck or in the neck pocket to bring it closer. Do you have feeler gauges?

[markdavid]

[quote name='Marc S' timestamp='1491983523' post='3276871']


Yes indeed. The odd thing I find about a low action set-up, and related "fret buzz" - is that on some basses, I can really hear fret buzz when amplified, and on other basses, it's less noticeable. I'm really not sure why this should be? I mean, it sort of defies logic really, doesn't it? If you get fret buzz on two basses, if you hear it clearly when amplified on one, you should surely hear it to the same level on another bass... discuss! lol
[/quote] There are a number of factors, the condition of the frets on both basses,whether they have the same neck relief, even things like how bright sounding the pickups are and how bright the bass is accoustically can affect this.

One thing i have found is that fret buzz that is heard when practicing at home is often virtually inaudible when playing live with a band

[Twincam]

[quote name='Marc S' timestamp='1491983523' post='3276871']


Yes indeed. The odd thing I find about a low action set-up, and related "fret buzz" - is that on some basses, I can really hear fret buzz when amplified, and on other basses, it's less noticeable. I'm really not sure why this should be? I mean, it sort of defies logic really, doesn't it? If you get fret buzz on two basses, if you hear it clearly when amplified on one, you should surely hear it to the same level on another bass... discuss! lol
[/quote]

Well I believe that is simply maybe a case of different pickups or if active different electrics being more sensitive to those frequencies. As I've had the same bass in the past changed pickups and noticed less noise through the amp.

And as said above fret condition, strings, neck relief, neck radius even and also adding the type of materials used for the neck. Will all have an effect.

[Twincam]

[quote name='ba55i5t' timestamp='1492034766' post='3277455']
I'm surprised I haven't seen more posts about using a neck shim or a neck tilt function. If your relief is set to .012 then you should be able to muck around with the saddles to get it as low as possible. If you need to, you can put a shim under the neck or in the neck pocket to bring it closer. Do you have feeler gauges?
[/quote]

Sub .009 is where its at for a really low action. Currently my bass is .005. Combined with the correct nut height, to prevent back clank of fretted notes. I also rolled off the last 7 frets.

Really speaking for low action you don't want a neck with any shim or excess angle. As the lower the strings go, the strighter they become from nut to bridge, relative to the end of the fretboard. If that makes sense lol.
All the easiest basses to get a low action have a very straight neck angle. And a very flat fretboard. No ski jumps etc (looking at you fender!).
That doesn't apply to basses with deliberate neck angle often on set neck or neck throughs and higher bridges.
And of course if you run out of bridge thread then a shim is needed.

[Root45]

[quote name='Twincam' timestamp='1492279149' post='3279203']
I also rolled off the last 7 frets.


[/quote]

+1. If you want low action, filing down the very bottom frets is the simplest way to achieve it

[gjones]

I could get a very low action on my Geddy Lee Jazz. But I had a problem gigging with the bass, as any change in temperature meant the wood of the neck would expand or contract and the strings would start buzzing and notes would choke. I ended up having to take the action up a bit, just so I could gig with the thing.

Edited April 23, 2017 by gjones

[prowla]

I've got a couple of Status basses and the action is low.
Status strings also seem to have less tension than other brands.

[Greg.Bassman]

Hi all. Some interesting feedback here, cheers all!

[ChazzJEUK]

In my opinion, a bass neck needs to be well reinforced to get a great low action. Wood moves, in my experience composite necks are fantastic for getting the lowest action imaginable. Basses with carbon rods in the necks also stand up to the tension of the strings so much better. So it's easy to get an action LOWER than 2.5mm at the 12th fret....

Nowadays I don't buy a bass, unless it's got a reinforced neck, I feel that non-reinforced necks are just inferior in general and just unstable.

[Twincam]

[quote name='gjones' timestamp='1492911942' post='3284087']
I could get a very low action on my Geddy Lee Jazz. But I had a problem gigging with the bass, as any change in temperature meant the wood of the neck would expand or contract and the strings would start buzzing and notes would choke. I ended up having to take the action up a bit, just so I could gig with the thing.
[/quote]

[quote name='ChazzJEUK' timestamp='1493769856' post='3290595']
In my opinion, a bass neck needs to be well reinforced to get a great low action. Wood moves, in my experience composite necks are fantastic for getting the lowest action imaginable. Basses with carbon rods in the necks also stand up to the tension of the strings so much better. So it's easy to get an action LOWER than 2.5mm at the 12th fret....

Nowadays I don't buy a bass, unless it's got a reinforced neck, I feel that non-reinforced necks are just inferior in general and just unstable.
[/quote]

Indeed at very low action heights. Well neck reliefs especially. Atmosphere changes can affect a neck and the action height.
I'm using an Ibanez sr500 atm, had zero issues with its neck. Its a multi laminate of course jatoba/bubinga. And as the above poster said reinforced necks are better than non. And obviously exotic carbon/graphite necks are excellent too.
There's many single wood, non reinforced necks that are perfectly fine too of course.
But I suppose going for a multi laminate or reinforced etc neck will give a bit more reliability in certain situations with very low action heights.

I have been experimention with action heights the last month going back and forth currently my action is approx .005 neck relief, 1.7mm-1.4mm E to G. Very light gauge strings. I've actually found the key to low action and no fret buzz, is as previously stated, A very light touch! Something I've been really working on.
There is tonal differences in low, med and high actions too I noticed. I prefer the sound of a low action which sounds great in a mix, if sometimes not so much solo.