Advice on amplifying an acoustic bass guitar please.

[jazzyvee]

[color=#1D2129][font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]On Monday this week I had a short notice dep call to hold down the bass on a jam session so I brought a small rig consisting of mesa boogie Walkabout head and 2x10 powerhouse cab. [/font][/color]
[color=#1D2129][font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Later on a band came up to do a set and had an acoustic bass guitar which I plugged into my bass rig and eq'd it so that it wasn't too loud or too bassy and turned the tweeter to it's minimum setting as I know these things seem to kick out a heft of a signal. My parting words were don't turn anything and don't blow up my cab![/font][/color]
[color=#1D2129][font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Anyway as their songs went on I had to keep walking back to the stage to turn down the volume then bottom end and upper mids as it sounded raspy ( he was using a pick). On the one occasion I saw him turning up the volume between songs I went over reset it below where I originally had it and stood behind him for the remainder of the set. [/font][/color]
[color=#1D2129][font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]I'm not going to do that again. In future any acoustic bass players will have to go through the P.A. or bring their own amp.[/font][/color]
[color=#1D2129][font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Any advice for me using that setup for myself in the future. Is it a good idea to use a regular bass rig for acoustic bass guitars or would I be better off with a dedicated acoustic bass guitar amp.[/font][/color]
[color=#1D2129][font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]As an aside at home I use my PJB Briefcase and that's ok at the volume levels I use and in theory on the right gig I could DI out from it into the P.A. but what about those in between gigs that the PJB is too small or those where there is no PA and the bass has to fill the room. Any experienced advice would be grateful.[/font][/color]

[Happy Jack]

If you (acting as sound guy) were turning down his volume, while he (on stage) was turning it up, perhaps it was more of a monitoring issue than anything else - he just couldn't hear himself?

[Lw.]

When I've gigged with my acoustic bass (well electro-acoustic) I've always just used a DI box into the PA as these gigs have always been acoustic singer song-writer types & there's always a small PA for the vocals to go through - as they're low volume gigs even small PAs can take a bit of bass going through to bring it up to acoustic guitar volume. But I've used a normal bass amp at home loads of times - there shouldn't be anything wrong in just using your normal rig.

If you're worried about bass amp volume I'd look at angling your cab so it points diagonally up or putting it on a stand so it's closer to ear height - 210's are pretty low even stood on their end so maybe the bassist just couldn't hear because the sound was being blasted at their ankles.

[BassBod]

Acoustic basses often get used in situations where there is just too much stage volume, and players expect the same "on stage" level they can get with a solid bass. It is better to have most of the sound in the main PA and just enough stage level to hear - but that just feels uncomfortable if you haven't done it a lot. Also, the on board preamp allows a lot of tweaking, which usually just exaggerates rather than enhances the sound.

Its always going to be a tricky situation, and you did well to supervise without any conflict. I did a complicated show a few weeks ago, many bands..most with electro acoustic guitars and small AER type amps (big venue). The engineer had to deal with all of them setting a sound on the amp (too bright, too bassy..to make a small amp sound big) then watch them tweak the on-board preamp to be even brighter as he tried to tame the sound for the PA. Makes you appreciate why many engineers insist on using the "pre" and not "post" DI on bass amps.

[jazzyvee]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1488966779' post='3253264']
If you (acting as sound guy) were turning down his volume, while he (on stage) was turning it up, perhaps it was more of a monitoring issue than anything else - he just couldn't hear himself?
[/quote]
yeah I think that was a lot of the reason for him upping the volume as the cab was a 2x10 vertically but right by your legs due to space constraints so even I couldnt hear myself perfectly but enough to get through. But I was concerned that he would turn it way up and blow the cab.

[yorks5stringer]

Another issue with an hollow bass and soundhole can be feedback at volume levels on stage that would not trouble a solid bass. I had a Godin acoustic and a Warwick Star Bass ( semi acoustic) and had to be a bit careful with the Godin even though the soundhole was not really a soundhole....!

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/A5UltraNSG5

[jazzyvee]

Thanks guys I certainly will try first angling it upwards or raise the height so it's easier to hear the cab and hopefully if they can hear themselves they won't want to keep turning up and make themselves deaf. For me I was wearing earplugs and set my volume according to what balanced with the band and left it and moved to where I could hear it best which actually on that day was off to one side.

[stingrayPete1977]

I've given up with mine, it never leaves the house and I've fitted a mag pickup to my double bass

[bazzbass]

actually you may find that acoustic bass guitars DO sound better DId straight to the PA.

[Happy Jack]

But in that case, choice of DI box is pretty critical. Using a cheap active box will really not help at all.

If you want to go straight to PA, then IME you either need one of the excellent Radial boxes (I have a Passive JDI and also a StageBug) or even better you need a Fishman preamp pedal, my favourite being the Platinum Pro.

There are are plenty of other good boxes to choose from.

[Jazzjames]

[quote name='jazzyvee' timestamp='1488962396' post='3253215']
[color=#1D2129][font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]On Monday this week I had a short notice dep call to hold down the bass on a jam session so I brought a small rig consisting of mesa boogie Walkabout head and 2x10 powerhouse cab. [/font][/color]
[color=#1D2129][font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Later on a band came up to do a set and had an acoustic bass guitar which I plugged into my bass rig and eq'd it so that it wasn't too loud or too bassy and turned the tweeter to it's minimum setting as I know these things seem to kick out a heft of a signal. My parting words were don't turn anything and don't blow up my cab![/font][/color]
[color=#1D2129][font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Anyway as their songs went on I had to keep walking back to the stage to turn down the volume then bottom end and upper mids as it sounded raspy ( he was using a pick). On the one occasion I saw him turning up the volume between songs I went over reset it below where I originally had it and stood behind him for the remainder of the set. [/font][/color]
[color=#1D2129][font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]I'm not going to do that again. In future any acoustic bass players will have to go through the P.A. or bring their own amp.[/font][/color]
[color=#1D2129][font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Any advice for me using that setup for myself in the future. Is it a good idea to use a regular bass rig for acoustic bass guitars or would I be better off with a dedicated acoustic bass guitar amp.[/font][/color]
[color=#1D2129][font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]As an aside at home I use my PJB Briefcase and that's ok at the volume levels I use and in theory on the right gig I could DI out from it into the P.A. but what about those in between gigs that the PJB is too small or those where there is no PA and the bass has to fill the room. Any experienced advice would be grateful.[/font][/color]
[/quote]

If you're not comfortable with other people playing your gear, just say they can't or let the venue know you'll need them to supply a combo or something adequate.

I personally wouldn't take kindly to someone telling me not to change anything, and turning me down between songs.

If their bass tone wasn't good, then that's their problem not yours, unless he asked you for an opinion of what it sounded like out front.

If the acoustic bass guitar has a good pickup which doesn't feed back too readily, then it shouldn't be any problem to put through a bass rig, same rules as bass guitar and double bass apply.

[jazzyvee]

Yep understand your point about not taking kindly to a request not to toucn anything. But that would be my perogative since the rig is mine if I thought someone was abusing it or I felt damage was likely to occur then I would have no qualms about turning the rig off. But I did stress to the bass player not to change anything on the amp. (I've read too many horror stories on here and on talk bass about that sort of thing and rarely the culprit is honourable enough to pay up for the repair).

Fortunately the regular bass player is back now so that particular session is over. I'm back to my regular session where the volume is more sedate and the cab doesn't need to be loud. Phew. Thanks for the advice and suggestions guys. :-)

Edited March 21, 2017 by jazzyvee

[synthaside]

I use an aria electro acoustic bass with a little 3 band eq on it when occasionally frequent a jam / open mic in Hampton wick . When I first went down I assumed as they advertised it was 100% an acoustic affair ,that there would be no amps but as it turns out the organisers bass player had a rather nice valve mark bass Amp on top of a 2X10 . When I offered, To plug straight into the PA they were using for vocals , the three band on my acoustic bass is usually more than enough to shape a tone plugged into a PA .) The Bass player was borderline offended and insisted on my using the markbass and his stool right next to the cab.

Sounded very good though , got comments on the tone out of my black nylon tapewounds , So my question what the hell kind of volume was the open mic at to risk damage to your [color=#1D2129][font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Walkabout. I'd have thought that unless your amp was set up for an active bass with huge output, the volume you set on the mesa would have been more than loud enough , unless the guy was totally deaf or trying to get Punk P bass tones out of an instrument not designed for it.[/font][/color]

Edited March 22, 2017 by synthaside

[BassBod]

My experience with both has taught me that an acoustic bass guitar is much more likely to feed back at low volumes than double bass. The top (which is what resonates first) is much lighter and reacts at much lower stage levels....like barely turned on! 😳

[Chienmortbb]

Acoustic bass guitars are evil. You can't hear them when played " acoustically " and can only hear them amplified. So thats an electric Bass then? A Howling' Wolf in sheep clothing!

[bazzbass]

If you are gonna DI an acoustic electric bass you'll want a passive DI as the bass is active ie it has a pre amp.

[Chienmortbb]

[quote name='bazztard' timestamp='1491379967' post='3272495']
If you are gonna DI an acoustic electric bass you'll want a passive DI as the bass is active ie it has a pre amp.
[/quote]In many situations the pre-amp out will feed a mixer with no problem. You may need a DI to balance the audio on long cable runs we only DI passive electric basses and guitars at our open mic night.

[Phil Starr]

The problem may just be down to inexperience and the monitoring issues already mentioned. A lot of people at jam/open mic sessions aren't regular performers and to be fair it isn't ideal doing just three songs with no chance to set up and sound check. It's often pretty difficult for an experienced musician to pick themselves out of the mix, for an irregular it can be tough. There's also the tendency to believe that if we can't hear the audience can't hear either.

If there is a next time then point the speakers at his ears, he'll hear himself and be happy and your amp will be safe. He may even turn himself down

[jazzyvee]

Point well made Phil, thanks. :-)