nash Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 I really know something like this will benefit me. As much as I like to be limited I like a lot a variations of the same things. Like fuzz, delay, reverbs etc. I'm just after opinions. Also with the midi I'm guessing it could change the presets on my Novation Bass Station? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 [quote name='nash' timestamp='1489050390' post='3253920'] I really know something like this will benefit me. As much as I like to be limited I like a lot a variations of the same things. Like fuzz, delay, reverbs etc. I'm just after opinions. Also with the midi I'm guessing it could change the presets on my Novation Bass Station? [/quote] The Helix "seems" to be more popular amongst bass players. However, that may be because you can't seem to find any Axe units in the UK to trial! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nash Posted March 9, 2017 Author Share Posted March 9, 2017 [quote name='charic' timestamp='1489052729' post='3253948'] The Helix "seems" to be more popular amongst bass players. However, that may be because you can't seem to find any Axe units in the UK to trial! [/quote] That's a good point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 [quote name='nash' timestamp='1489053929' post='3253958'] That's a good point [/quote] I'm looking at the helix myself to potentially replace my Hartke Kilo and Bergantino NV610. Mostly to save space Just need to make sure the sound is a fit for me first! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonic_Groove Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 IMHO They are all too expensive!! B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nash Posted March 9, 2017 Author Share Posted March 9, 2017 [quote name='Sonic_Groove' timestamp='1489069555' post='3254144'] IMHO They are all too expensive!! B [/quote] Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolverinebass Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 I played a Fractal a few years ago. Whilst I didn't think the distortions were that great for bass, the rest of the effects were really good. Like everything, it takes time to learn to programme and you either like that fact or not. The bass and sims were tacked on somewhat at that time. I don't know if they're still a bit ropey now. Wouldn't mind playing a helix to try it. Seems like a good bit of kit. The main question is how much flexibility and processing power do you need? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skybone Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 I'd say Helix, but I use a POD HD, so I guess I'm biased. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 I've got a Helix and I love it. Amazing thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimfist Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Although Fractal Audio has a handful of Bass Amp models and stock Bass Cab sims (IRs), they really have paid token interest indulging bassists with their offerings. This is not to say that the AX8/AxeFxII are not worthy units, but clearly they are top shelf for guitarists primarily. Bassists can certainly be plenty happy with an AX8, but you may need to do a little tweaking and hand-crafting to get specifically what you want. Ditto for the Helix, although it does have more to offer for bass "stuff" than the AX8 (bass amp models). Both are great pieces of gear with different specific features and work flow. Really, both are quality pieces of gear...can't go wrong either way. Unfortunate that the bassist community doesn't really have a specific targeted device at the high end of the modeler/multi-fx category. Certainly, the Helix, AX8/AxeFxII/Kemper are used by bassists for amp/cab modeling and effects, but otherwise the selections for dynamics, EQ, and special effects are not specifically tailored for bass. Even a company with deep pockets like ZOOM has openly admitted that they've not indulged bassists to any lengthy degree due to the lack of market share (when queried about why then have only released a B3n version, and not a B5n for their new series of pedals). That being the case, unless someone really wants to roll the dice and make this their mission, finances be damned, I doubt we'll see much in the way of a modeler/multi-fx pedal with high level, robust features, targeted at bassists. Thus, bassists who want to get into modeling technology for bass have to either spend a lot of money for excellent products that have bass as a secondary consideration, or otherwise be left with the few bass-specific modeler/multi-fx that are on the low-low/mid price range, with limited features and quality reflected. I never thought I'd be so anxious and excited for ZOOM's bass pedals after having owned the AxeFx Ultra, AxeFxII, and Atomic Amplifire...but...for bass, specifically, Zoom is the only one getting it done, for better or worse. Apologies for the OT rant. ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanAxe Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 This may help: http://youtu.be/-8FhyTx34wE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 The next Helix firmware update will have loads of bass amps, The DG B7K and other stuff on it. The 2 senior modelling guys at L6 are bassists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJ Spicer Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 I use the Axe FXII for my bass effects live. The 90% of the effects on it are truly of stunning quality, though I agree that the drives aren't amazing on bass, they're more than enough for live. However, as everyone else has said bass is a secondary concern when it comes to the functionality of the system, and as a result you do have to spend a little longer dialling in your sounds - but this doesn't mean it's any worse, just slightly more time consuming. Pitch effects down are the only place where it seems to lack for me, octaves up and harmonisers are great, but tracking down is really not quite there in comparison to my MXR BOD for example. AX8 vs FX8 I'd go with the FX8 into a good amp. I end up running my Axe FXII into the front of my amp simply because it gives me an easier eq tweak on the fly if needed. I unfortunately never tried the Helix when I was comparing, having been told it was s*** by the sales guy at Andertons... I personally think it looks like a great device to me though, and the ability to tweak with the screen looks much simpler than the Axe. In the end I went with the Axe based on the known quality at the time and the amount of processing power available (specs wise it blows the Helix away, but that brings to mind the old Android /iPhone argument - they aren't everything). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 I don't think you can go wrong with any of the 3 top machines anymore. They do sound a little different, and the way they operate is a little different, but the tech has now reached the point where it's pretty much down to personal choice rather than something more physical. Something else that is coming though is Helix Native as a full featured app for Win and OS. A Helix in your computer. Alone it is going to cost quite a lot, BUT if you have a Hardware Helix already, it's only going to be $99 - and apparently it will be a multi-machine licence so you can have it on your desktop and lappie too. The Helix is already awesome at doing re-amping, but if I can do that all in the PC, then that will be awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nash Posted March 13, 2017 Author Share Posted March 13, 2017 Think I'm going Helix. Probably end up using a Soure Audio Aftershock for dirt at some point. I did email SA with the idea of an aftershock deluxe. Two channels per preset in a Nemesis sized box with midi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 If you get one, make sure you do the firmware update as soon as you get it. If it's been in a shop for a little while it may well be out of date, and the updates are certainly worth having before you get stuck in saving patches. Join the facebook Helix Users Group too - loads of advice on there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nash Posted March 13, 2017 Author Share Posted March 13, 2017 [quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1489410191' post='3256634'] If you get one, make sure you do the firmware update as soon as you get it. If it's been in a shop for a little while it may well be out of date, and the updates are certainly worth having before you get stuck in saving patches. Join the facebook Helix Users Group too - loads of advice on there. [/quote] Good advice! Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 I've just been looking at these as I've been thinking of upgrading my BassPod XT... Is there anywhere I can try any of the Fractal units in the UK? I'd like to see if it's worth the extra €400 for the amp models on the AX8. TBH as a bass player, I'm not really bothered about how "authentic" they sound. On the Pod I mostly use the Sub-Dub preset as my starting point which isn't really an amp model at all. IMO so long as the EQ is flexible the "amp sound" doesn't really matter. One concern will be how quickly Fractal keep up with changes to Mac OSX for their editor. I know Line6 don't have the best reputation for being able to respond to the latest versions of the Mac operating system. Finally is there any real advantage to getting the rack versions of either the Fractal or Helix, other than it keeps most of the expensive electronics out of the beer puddles? The rack version of the BassPod XT adds a couple of useful extra functions and some I/O options, but otherwise that's it. I'm not initially impressed with the Fractal foot controller, I don't really like 2 banks of foot switches as I find the second bank awkward to operate on stage, so 3 banks is rather off-putting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 I went for the Helix rack with the foot controller. Partly because I wanted to keep the brain away from the beer, but also for ease of use on a desk when recording. The floor unit is pretty big and would take up all my desk room! I already have a rack sitting there so it was an easy choice. There's also the bending down to tweak stuff rather than having it at waist height. (Although you can actually tweak with your feet too - and the buttons are capacitive so you can touch them to see what is assigned to that switch and the settings without actually turning that button on or off) The Rack and controller option does not have an expression pedal. I got the helix specific Mission L6H model to go with it. It plugs either into the brain, or into the footcontroller. I have mine into the foot controller with a couple of patch leads. It allows the toe switch to also be programmed for things beyond just turning the wah on. My Cliff Burton Patch (For whom the bell tolls) uses it for the intro section - the toe switch turns on the wah, and a second fuzz stacked with another to get the completely nasty grating sound he had. When it's off, it is just a volume, when on, wah and fuzz. IIRC the only physical addition the rack + controller has is that as a total it has another set of expression inputs compared to the floor unit- basically because the main one with toe switch is on both the brain and the controller. If you run out of them, then the Source Audio Reflex expression / midi controller would solve the problem. That thing is amazing. I haven't got one as I don't need one, but friends have and they are controlling all manner of things with it. 2 wahs at the same time in reverse, while controlling speed of a phaser etc. There is no Sub-Dub bass model on the Helix. At the moment there is the usual selection of SVTs. Mesa 400+, GK and others, but the EQ is very powerful. There are the amp EQs, then separate EQ blocks, and then global setting EQ as well. More bass models are in the next firmware update, due this month. The individual settings for the EQ blocks and the Amp EQ can be set as "Snapshots" - so a footswitch can change the values of any or all of the EQ settings without changing a patch- therefore no patch loading time. I'm biased because I bought a Helix, but the UI is amazing - so easy to use. It comes with a Beginners Guide info sheet, and the full instructions on a memory stick. I've never even looked at the stuff on the stick, I imagine that unless diving into MIDI it won't be needed by many people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Thanks that's excellent info! Can you run the Helix with the amp models completely off? You can't on the Pod, so I just picked the model that sounded the best to me from the initial presets and worked from there. From my PoV the models of the actual amps on the bass Pod all sounded a bit on the "thin" side irrespective of how much they sounded (or not) like the amps they were based on. Only the Sub-Dub preset sounded sufficiently fat as a starting point for the bass sound I wanted "out of the box". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 (edited) That's a damn good question! I don't know. I've never tried it - BUT as you can record a totally dry signal via the Helix and then reamp later I'm going to guess Yes. But I'll give it a try when I have a mo - I suppose it might need a volume block if the gain is too low without an amp model. The GK model has a load of low end, and the beauty of the 2 main paths with a secondary path each is that you can blend direct with a Cab model, and muck about with Mic type and placement too. You can even set it so the XLRs have cab sims and go to the PA, but the 1/4 inch outputs don't have cab sims for use with a regular amp or power amp and cab. - at the same time. Even though I use a head (just the power section) and traditional cab, I sometimes mix in a cab sim as well. It's just an FX block after all. If it sounds good... Edited March 13, 2017 by fretmeister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimfist Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1489418899' post='3256739'] Is there anywhere I can try any of the Fractal units in the UK? [/quote] Have you contacted anyone via the G66eu website? [url="https://www.g66.eu/en"]https://www.g66.eu/en[/url] They are the European market distribution point for Fractal Audio gear. They can give you a lot of information on the AX8 and AxeFxII, and perhaps hook you up with a demo from someone who is in your region. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nash Posted March 13, 2017 Author Share Posted March 13, 2017 Has anyone seen the RJM midi controllers? Oh man they are sweet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Oh cmon, you can do better than that Nash! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nash Posted March 13, 2017 Author Share Posted March 13, 2017 That is just wild. Haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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