Where did the Nu-romantic sound come from?

[Pbassred]

By "Nu-Romantic" I mean the Duran's "Rio" and Roxy's "Same old scene".

Now I know that John Taylor was into Bernard Edwards but Its not the same. Duran are supposed to have been into Punk, electronica, and Roxymusic, but Neil Spenner's line on "Same old Scene" was recorded at about the same time.

So who were they listening to before that?

[Happy Jack]

Not sure if this helps, but Roxy Music were around WAY before Duran Duran turned up.

I was bopping to [i]Virginia Plain[/i] and [i]Do The Strand[/i] in 1973/74, whereas [i]Rio[/i] didn't come out until 1982.

[Pbassred]

Yes I'm old enough to remember them being out as singles. It doesn't realy help. Those have different bass styles. Even Japan which had the same tone, was a different style.

[Bass_In_Yer_Face]

I love the new-romantic area stuff.

For me Roxy invented it. Bowie flirted with it with Ashes to Ashes etc.....Japan and Mr Karn definately imitated Roxy Music but I still loved them anyway.

When you listen to some the Roxy era stuff circa '75..you can't believe it was that much ahead of the game. Then of course when new-romantic scene was underway, they released 'Same Old Scene' which for me is one of the greatest tracks of all time.

A nod needs to go to Numan as well as the MK1 Human League...oh and Kraftwerk who invented just about everything that wasn't rock.

If you listen to 'Underpass' by John Foxx...that seemed to be the template for all of Numan's stuff after that but apparently John Foxx didn't really have the image. Playing Ice cold new wave synth music while wearing Hawaiin shirts etc

Edited October 22, 2008 by Bass_In_Yer_Face

[skankdelvar]

Funny, I always thought of Numan as synth-rock of the OMD school and Roxy as being in their extended "Ferry as lounge lizard" mode.

The ever-reliable Wikipedia briefly lists the following as New-Rom:

Depeche Mode, Spandau Ballet, Visage, Japan, Ultravox, Adam & The Ants, Culture Club, Duran Duran, Classix Nouveaux.

....which represents a fair spread of sounds.

As to where the 'New Rom' sound came from - well, as mentioned above, there were various UK bands and individuals experimenting with synths at the end of the 70's, start of the 80's - Numan, OMD, etc. This later merged with some rhythmic aspects of disco and pop e.g Chic. Vocally, Scott Walker was a big, if unacknowledged, influence.

Around then, some club guys in London (Rusty Egan and Steve Strange) stuck a label on all this, while the Soho-istas glammed up as a sort of reaction against the perceived drabness of punk.

Thus the New-Rom movement emerged, but bands developed their own, varying sounds - ranging from the light 'session' pop of Culture Club to the left-field stuff from Japan. Musically, not as uniform as punk, with, I suspect, a fair bit of input from studio musicians.

Probably the biggest influence on the sound was the wider availability of big polyphonic synths - e.g. Kurzweil, Oberheim - that gave everything that 'lush' 80's keyboard pad sound, as well as the hideous 'parping' keyboard bass.

From my recollection, the early 80's was a pretty dull time, musically, with more emphasis on fashion and style than songs and substance. Sounds familar?

Edited October 22, 2008 by skankdelvar

[Bass_In_Yer_Face]

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='312190' date='Oct 22 2008, 03:29 PM']Funny, I always thought of Numan as synth-rock of the OMD school and Roxy as being in their extended "Ferry as lounge lizard" mode.

The ever-reliable Wikipedia briefly lists the following as New-Rom:

Depeche Mode, Spandau Ballet, Visage, Japan, Ultravox, Adam & The Ants, Culture Club, Duran Duran, Classix Nouveaux.

....which represents a fair spread of sounds.

As to where the 'New Rom' sound came from - well, as mentioned above, there were various UK bands and individuals experimenting with synths at the end of the 70's, start of the 80's - Numan, OMD, etc. This later merged with some rhythmic aspects of disco and pop e.g Chic. Vocally, Scott Walker was a big, if unacknowledged, influence.

Around then, some club guys in London (Rusty Egan and Steve Strange) stuck a label on all this, while the Soho-istas glammed up as a sort of reaction against the perceived drabness of punk.

Thus the New-Rom movement emerged, but bands developed their own, varying sounds - ranging from the light 'session' pop of Culture Club to the left-field stuff from Japan. Musically, not as uniform as punk, with, I suspect, a fair bit of input from studio musicians.

Probably the biggest influence on the sound was the wider availability of big polyphonic synths - e.g. Kurzweil, Oberheim - that gave everything that 'lush' 80's keyboard pad sound, as well as the hideous 'parping' keyboard bass.

From my recollection, the early 80's was a pretty dull time, musically, with more emphasis on fashion and style than songs and substance. Sounds familar?[/quote]


Give me the early eighties anyday compared to the talentless wonders today. I think it's a bit harsh to say that the early eighties was a dull time for music. You had the dawning of new romantics, new wave, hip hop, goth, electro & Ska..to name a few off the top of my head...what have you got now?

[martthebass]

[quote name='Bass_In_Yer_Face' post='312265' date='Oct 22 2008, 04:24 PM']Give me the early eighties anyday compared to the talentless wonders today. I think it's a bit harsh to say that the early eighties was a dull time for music. You had the dawning of new romantics, new wave, hip hop, goth, electro & Ska..to name a few off the top of my head...what have you got now?[/quote]

+1, being an eighties reject meself. I guess you had to be there to understand it?

Also Mark1 Human League/The Future, early Depeche and UVox - Class....

[MacDaddy]

[quote name='martthebass' post='312518' date='Oct 22 2008, 09:26 PM']+1, being an eighties reject meself. I guess you had to be there to understand it?[/quote]

+2 then .

One of my fave bands (who got lumped in with the New Romantics, but weren't) was The Thompson Twins.

Edited October 22, 2008 by MacDaddy

[silverfoxnik]

I always think of the New Romantic 'sound' as being a synthesis of David Bowie's 'Low' & 'Heroes' albums, Kraftwerk's 'Trans Europe Express' album and the soundtrack to 'Saturday Night Fever'..

It's no surprise that all the so-called 'Blitz Kids' who included Rusty Egan, Boy George and Steve Strange referred to Bowie as their ulimate musical idol and in return for that praise, Bowie featured them in the video to 'Ashes to Ashes'.

[Beedster]

[quote name='silverfoxnik' post='312565' date='Oct 22 2008, 10:20 PM']I always think of the New Romantic 'sound' as being a synthesis of David Bowie's 'Low' & 'Heroes' albums, Kraftwerk's 'Trans Europe Express' album and the soundtrack to 'Saturday Night Fever'..

It's no surprise that all the so-called 'Blitz Kids' who included Rusty Egan, Boy George and Steve Strange referred to Bowie as their ulimate musical idol and in return for that praise, Bowie featured them in the video to 'Ashes to Ashes'.[/quote]

Something tells me you're an expert on this Nik
PS we're in Brighton for the Counting Crows on 11th December. Hiope we can catch up
C

[aryustailm]

[quote name='"Bass_In_Yer_Face"']You had the dawning of new romantics, new wave, hip hop, goth, electro & Ska..to name a few off the top of my head...what have you got now?[/quote]

You've got ALL of that, plus a whole lot more - everything thats come after, as well as evolutions and mergers of the genres you listed.

There's even more fantastic music around now than ever. The only difference, in my opinion, is the standard of popular music (ie music on tv and radio) has plummetted over time. The 'talentless wonders of today' are only really wonders of radio and tv. Radio and TV might have been the main source of music for people pre early 90s, but in my mind it's a terrible terrible oversight to only discover music through them nowadays.
Just listen to the radio for a whole day, and hear 8 different DJ's (supposedly different people with different tastes) all of them playing the same 15 or so songs again and again and again. It's a business. But it's really not a reflection of the quality of music around today. Just the quality of what is considered best for radio/tv consumption.

It seems to me there are more truly stunning players around at increasingly young ages than there ever has been. There's also far more terrible players around. There's just far more music around now, whereas in the 80s and earlier, they'd be fewer, but bigger more established artists. Quality not quantity. And I think people were more fanatical about one or two artists. It seems now, with the glut of NME bands, the turnover is a lot lot quicker, so the quality suffers - the music press push the 'guilt' of not keeping up with whatever new band is this months feature. Who are no doubt exactly the same as last months 'in' thing (though they might have different haircuts). It's a great business model - sell people the same thing, just repackaged, again and again, month after month. The motivating factor for the buyers is they don't want to seem uncool by being out of date.

Anyhow, for me, finding good new music is an active pursuit. There's no 'hoping' it will turn up in daily life via radio/tv/magazines. The internet is fantastic. There's no need for a reviewer/magazine/dj/presenter to try and tell you what's good and bad through a description in words. The answer to "What do they sound like?" should pretty much be the band's url, followed by clicking 'Play'.

imho, music itself is in a pretty fantastic state today - the music industry though, is a whole different dire matter.

(Sorry for the off topic rant!)

[bnt]

The way it looks to me, technology had a lot to do with it. Roxy Music had Brian Eno and his VCS3 making all sorts of weird noises, then there were the synth pioneers like Billy Currie (Ultravox) and Richard Barbieri (Japan). It was also the time during which it was possible to get 24 or more tracks of recording, and then digital recording took off.

You had the likes of Nick Rhodes and his Jupiter 8 Arpeggiator, which was basically [b]the[/b] sound of Duran Duran. One of my favourite stories from that period was [url="http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep99/articles/oscar.htm"]this[/url], about the OSCar synthesiser and how it landed on an Ultravox album. It was literally a case of "if you build it, they will play it".

[silverfoxnik]

[quote name='Beedster' post='312570' date='Oct 22 2008, 10:23 PM']Something tells me you're an expert on this Nik
PS we're in Brighton for the Counting Crows on 11th December. Hiope we can catch up
C[/quote]
Don't know about that Chris, just my 2p worth..

I started playing in my first band in 1977 and though Punk was happening at that time, what came next musically with the whole post-Punk/New Romantic era which was much more interesting to me because it took all those musical elements that everyone has mentioned here, but it also had that Punk attitude that [i]anything [/i]was possible..

Our drummer's going to that gig IIRC.. are you staying over in Brighton that night? If so, then let's hook up before or afterwards.. Be great to see you

[dub_junkie]

Bowie/Roxy/Velvet Underground/Kraftwerk > Numan/Foxx/Ultravox/Human league > Duran/Japan/depeche Mode etc.

Nick rhodes and John taylor said they grew up listening to bands like the velvet underground,roxy and bowie iirc from interviews around the time they first made it big. they did a great live cover of steve harleys cockney rebel "come up and see me" and then the album "thank you" in the mid 90s which shows their influences

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thank_You_(Duran_Duran_album)#Track_listing"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thank_You_(Du...)#Track_listing[/url]

(the drummer credits on that album are just mental btw)

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='Bass_In_Yer_Face' post='312265' date='Oct 22 2008, 04:24 PM']Give me the early eighties anyday compared to the talentless wonders today. I think it's a bit harsh to say that the early eighties was a dull time for music. You had the dawning of new romantics, new wave, hip hop, goth, electro & Ska..to name a few off the top of my head...what have you got now?[/quote]

Well, it was a bit dull for me, compared to the 70's ... but maybe not for anyone else.

In fairness, we did have the NWOBHM (hey kids, if you don't recognise this acronym, ask your Dad!)

[silverfoxnik]

[quote name='dub_junkie' post='312672' date='Oct 23 2008, 01:17 AM']Bowie/Roxy/Velvet Underground/Kraftwerk > Numan/Foxx/Ultravox/Human league > Duran/Japan/depeche Mode etc.

Nick rhodes and John taylor said they grew up listening to bands like the velvet underground,roxy and bowie iirc from interviews around the time they first made it big. they did a great live cover of steve harleys cockney rebel "come up and see me" and then the album "thank you" in the mid 90s which shows their influences

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thank_You_(Duran_Duran_album)#Track_listing"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thank_You_(Du...)#Track_listing[/url]

(the drummer credits on that album are just mental btw)[/quote]
Good point about Cockney Rebel being influential in this particular genre; if anyone's ever heard their song 'Sebastien', it's something any New Romantic band would have been proud of..

I seem to remember Duran Duran saying in an early interview that their template for the band was to cross Chic with the Sex Pistols.. And regarding Lou Reed and the Velvet Underground, the very first incarnation of Adam & The Ants had a song in their set called 'Lou' which was about Lou Reed.

One last thought about the New Romantic era is that it was definitely a reaction to Punk in the sense that Punk was supposedly 'anti-fashion' and 'anti-style- whereas New Romantics were obsessive about style and fashion..

[rjb]

For me it was a straight fusion of Punk, Electronica and Funk/Disco. As others have mentioned, the likes of Bowie and Roxy Music were already playing around with these in the 70s before Duran Duran appeared.

[Shaggy]

[quote name='silverfoxnik' post='312692' date='Oct 23 2008, 06:37 AM']One last thought about the New Romantic era is that it was definitely a reaction to Punk in the sense that Punk was supposedly 'anti-fashion' and 'anti-style- whereas New Romantics were obsessive about style and fashion..[/quote]

I clearly remember around 1980 our drummer turning up for a gig in a huge frilly white shirt and “pirate” bandana (we were pretty much a straight punk band) and the rest of us taking the p*ss something rotten!
I was in Liverpool then where the nu-romantic club scene was absolutely massive, part of the entertainment each night was just clocking the utterly amazing outfits and make-up – nothing so flamboyant in these post-grunge times. OMD, Echo & the Bunnymen, The Teardrop Explodes, and the Mighty Wah were just unsigned local bands then you’d see almost weekly.
Hugely into Japan, and post-punk bands like Magazine, Siouxie and the Banshees, and Joy Division around that time, but +1 for John Foxx era Ultravox; “[i]Hiroshima mon amour[/i]”, “[i]Quiet Men[/i]”, and “[i]Maximum acceleration[/i]” still some of my favourite listening material.
Great times……..pass me my eye-liner......…

[Bass_In_Yer_Face]

Nice thread about my chosen specialised subject!...while we are talking about dodgy new romantic bands....I like the playing by a band called Fashion. Songs sound horribly dated now but some lovely bass

[silverfoxnik]

[quote name='Bass_In_Yer_Face' post='312774' date='Oct 23 2008, 10:03 AM']Nice thread about my chosen specialised subject!...while we are talking about dodgy new romantic bands....I like the playing by a band called Fashion. Songs sound horribly dated now but some lovely bass[/quote]

+ 1

I loved Fashion and did a few gigs with them at a long since gone venue called The Nashville in West Kensington.. Do you mean the first incarnation of the band with Luke, the 6ft 10" tall singer or afterwards when Dee Harris was vocalist?

In both cases, it was Mulligan who played bass IIFC and he had a lovely black Ric 4003..

[Beedster]

[quote name='silverfoxnik' post='312661' date='Oct 23 2008, 12:38 AM']Our drummer's going to that gig IIRC.. are you staying over in Brighton that night? If so, then let's hook up before or afterwards.. Be great to see you [/quote]

Let's do it mate! I'll call you nearer the time
Chris

Edited October 23, 2008 by Beedster

[Geek99]

I thought it was summed up by three players.

1. John Taylor (if I end up one quarter as good as him, I'll be happy)
2. Spandau Ballet (see True) one of the Kemps?
3. Chap in Talk Talk (Paul Webb?) who was kind of a mixture of the two above IMHO yet somehow unique sounding.

[Beedster]

[quote name='Geek99' post='313335' date='Oct 23 2008, 09:31 PM']I thought it was summed up by three players.

1. John Taylor (if I end up one quarter as good as him, I'll be happy)
2. Spandau Ballet (see True) one of the Kemps?
3. Chap in Talk Talk (Paul Webb?) who was kind of a mixture of the two above IMHO yet somehow unique sounding.[/quote]

Wow, the bottom three in the list of my all time favourite bands

[silverfoxnik]

[quote name='Beedster' post='313292' date='Oct 23 2008, 08:38 PM']Let's do it mate! I'll call you nearer the time
Chris[/quote]
Definitely! Look forward to it....

[dub_junkie]

[quote name='Shaggy' post='312713' date='Oct 23 2008, 08:24 AM'].
Hugely into Japan, and post-punk bands like Magazine, Siouxie and the Banshees, and Joy Division around that time, but +1 for John Foxx era Ultravox; “[i]Hiroshima mon amour[/i]”, “[i]Quiet Men[/i]”, and “[i]Maximum acceleration[/i]” still some of my favourite listening material.[/quote]

Shaggy,you are a man of impecable taste!

Ultravox before Midge,Magazine and the Banshees are 3 of my favourite bands ever . I saw John Foxx on tour at the Barfly,Glasgow last year. he may be getting on but was outstanding for me hearing the entire metamatic album and b-sides after 27 years. also saw Siouxsie at the ABC in Glasgow in march of this year.another great gig