grandad Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/features/oh-boy-why-buddy-holly-still-matters-today-1501271.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Elvis had the looks, Roy Orbison had the voice, Jerry Lee had the reputation, but Buddy Holly had the songs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Buddy Holly showed that you didn't need to be a guitar virtuoso to write good songs (personally I think it can be disadvantage) 3 chords will do it, it's the lyrics and the melody line that's important, the Ramones did the same thing years later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bbiigg Kev Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Buddy Holly Superb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downdown Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 [quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1489228743' post='3255295'] Buddy Holly showed that you didn't need to be a guitar virtuoso to write good songs (personally I think it can be disadvantage) 3 chords will do it, it's the lyrics and the melody line that's important, the Ramones did the same thing years later [/quote] Er, what about all those early blues players, or do we discount them because they were poor and black? Buddy Holly was just one of the first to tap into an already well established genre and repackage it for the post-war baby boomers. More marketing creativity than musical creativity I'd say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Had cause to learn a few BH covers recently and was surprised. Apparently simple songs, but with quite sophisticated arrangements and clever modulation. A talent lost too soon, I feel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandad Posted March 11, 2017 Author Share Posted March 11, 2017 [quote name='Downdown' timestamp='1489235066' post='3255351'] Er, what about all those early blues players, or do we discount them because they were poor and black? Buddy Holly was just one of the first to tap into an already well established genre and repackage it for the post-war baby boomers. More marketing creativity than musical creativity I'd say. [/quote] That's a bit harsh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikel Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 He was obviously popular but I never rated him, or the Ramones come to that. I think if you have heard one song by each of the aforementioned acts you pretty much know what they can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 [quote name='Downdown' timestamp='1489235066' post='3255351'] Er, what about all those early blues players, or do we discount them because they were poor and black? Buddy Holly was just one of the first to tap into an already well established genre and repackage it for the post-war baby boomers. More marketing creativity than musical creativity I'd say. [/quote]er, the early blues players for whatever reason never got into the mainstream so most people never heard them, Holy was inspirational because he made it to mainstream Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scalpy Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 The recordings sound great, had to learn Raining in my Heart for a dep the other day and was blown away by the quality of the arrangement, mix and performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 (edited) It's fairly well established that Holly's primary influence was Country music and that his interest in R&B dates from around 1954 by which time he was already a professional performer. Holly's principle assimilation of black influences was through the arguably diluted medium of Rock and Roll, including artists such as Bo Diddley, Chuck Berry and Little Richard (having toured with the latter). AFAIK there's no evidence that Holly drew [i]directly[/i] on the blues artists of the 1920's-1940's whereas his debt to country music titans such as the Louvin Brothers, the Carter Family and Hank Williams is pretty well documented. It's there in his music at a ratio of country > everything else of about 70:30 (IMO ) Holly's national career lasted little more than 36 months but his influence is such that echoes of his work persist to this day. Not bad considering he's been dead for more than 58 years. Edited March 11, 2017 by skankdelvar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louisthebass Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 [quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1489247638' post='3255472'] It's fairly well established that Holly's primary influence was Country music and that his interest in R&B dates from around 1954 by which time he was already a professional performer. Holly's principle assimilation of black influences was through the arguably diluted medium of Rock and Roll, including artists such as Bo Diddley, Chuck Berry and Little Richard (having toured with the latter). AFAIK there's no evidence that Holly drew [i]directly[/i] on the blues artists of the 1920's-1940's whereas his debt to country music titans such as the Louvin Brothers, the Carter Family and Hank Williams is pretty well documented. It's there in his music at a ratio of country > everything else of about 70:30 (IMO ) Holly's national career lasted little more than 36 months but his influence is such that echoes of his work persist to this day. Not bad considering he's been dead for more than 58 years. [/quote] Agree 100% Good post 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivansc Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 [quote name='mikel' timestamp='1489240139' post='3255400'] He was obviously popular but I never rated him, or the Ramones come to that. I think if you have heard one song by each of the aforementioned acts you pretty much know what they can do. [/quote] A little glib to bracket Buddy Holly and The Ramones in the same dismissive way. So whose songwriting DO you rate? Bearing in mind that Hollys entire output was generated in about 3 years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downdown Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 [quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1489240714' post='3255408'] er, the early blues players for whatever reason never got into the mainstream so most people never heard them, Holy was inspirational because he made it to mainstream [/quote] Yes, I agree with that - you can't really influence anyone if you are not actually heard by anyone (or very few). But I was really addressing this point "[i]Buddy Holly showed that you didn't need to be a guitar virtuoso to write good songs . . . . 3 chords will do it,[/i]" by suggesting that many others had established this before Buddy Holly, so I was really doubting whether he was truly as innovative as was being made out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikel Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 [quote name='ivansc' timestamp='1489253729' post='3255538'] A little glib to bracket Buddy Holly and The Ramones in the same dismissive way. So whose songwriting DO you rate? Bearing in mind that Hollys entire output was generated in about 3 years? [/quote] Not glib at all, simply my opinion. As valid as yours I believe.I bracketed them as a poster before me compared them. I rate too many peoples songwriting to go into it here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivansc Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 (edited) Oops! Sorry - missed the earlier post entirely. Wondered how on earth you decided to put those two next to each other! Edited March 11, 2017 by ivansc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubinga5 Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Please educate me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Burrito Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 I have Buddy's glasses tattooed on my arm. Amazing when you consider how young he was. Same with Eddie Cochran. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandad Posted March 12, 2017 Author Share Posted March 12, 2017 (edited) Given the location of Lubbock the C&W influence had to be the bigger. As an example, how about Mr Peanuts Wilson? [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfe4iyXtpWM"]https://www.youtube....h?v=mfe4iyXtpWM[/url] Credited to - Roy Obison, Norman Petty and Peanuts Wilson with Orbison probably playing guitar as did Wison on some Orbison recordings. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sPPM3m1ShY As for using only 2 or 3 or 4 chords, well sometimes less is more. Edited March 12, 2017 by grandad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 [quote name='ivansc' timestamp='1489275037' post='3255743'] Oops! Sorry - missed the earlier post entirely. Wondered how on earth you decided to put those two next to each other! [/quote]personnel experience really, when I started learning guitar Buddy Holly's songs were amongst the first I learnt, easy and good songs, and when I decided I wanted to be in a band the Ramones were a big influence, again, easy and good songs, and I believe it was the same for other people as well, Holly influenced a lot of the early 60's bands and the same with the Ramones and the Punk bands Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpondonBassed Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Last year I was offered bassist with a band who's set was mainly Cliff, The Shadows, Eddie Cochrane, Elvis, Buddy Holly and the Crickets. I practised a half dozen or so from that set. Good wholesome stuff. The bass lines are not complicated but they are difficult to render faithfully. The music was from a time before bassists tended to take front of stage. I had to turn down the offer due to a difficult family situation that was developing more quickly than I was able for. Afterwards however I had a respect for BH that I wouldn't have got otherwise. He was just a little before my time. Since then, when any of his stuff is played, I take the time to listen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivansc Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 3 chords. Tried "Raining in my heart" & a few of Holly's other ballads? As far as the bass lines are concerned, SO much of it was done on upright that it really IS difficult getting that me feel on a bass guitar. Lee Sklar is rather good at that.... A lot of that old stuff from the fifties is deceptively tricky to nail. Feel is everything & very few drummers are able to really connect to what is necessary. Took me a long time to convince my current drummer that fours on hi-hat are perfectly acceptable. (grin) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louisthebass Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 [quote name='Burrito' timestamp='1489280533' post='3255759'] I have Buddy's glasses tattooed on my arm. Amazing when you consider how young he was. Same with Eddie Cochran. [/quote] Both taken from this earth far too soon. I'm not sure they would've been charting by the time of The Beatles, The Stones, et al but I think they would've ended up either in production or session musician work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 [quote name='ivansc' timestamp='1489332679' post='3256087'] 3 chords. Tried "Raining in my heart" & a few of Holly's other ballads? As far as the bass lines are concerned, SO much of it was done on upright that it really IS difficult getting that me feel on a bass guitar. Lee Sklar is rather good at that.... A lot of that old stuff from the fifties is deceptively tricky to nail. Feel is everything & very few drummers are able to really connect to what is necessary. Took me a long time to convince my current drummer that fours on hi-hat are perfectly acceptable. (grin) [/quote]they came later his early songs were among the best examples I know of how you can write great songs using just 3 chords, That'll Be the Day, Peggy Sue, Oh Boy, Rave On, brilliant, brilliant songs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivansc Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Absolutely - even if he did nick the odd melody & chord progression from others. Still love his "Not fade away" although not the mangled version the stones did.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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