lowdown Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 [quote name='ivansc' timestamp='1489398245' post='3256507'] Absolutely - even if he did nick the odd melody & chord progression from others. [/quote] Good Composers Borrow, Great Composers Steal. (not my words). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 [quote name='ivansc' timestamp='1489398245' post='3256507'] Absolutely - even if he did nick the odd melody & chord progression from others. [/quote]one of my pet theories is most great songs nick from others, it gives them a familiarity that drags the listener in in the first place and you've got a tough job not reusing a chord progression when it's only 3 chords lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 IMO, all the successful early rock & roll stars matter in one way or the other. IMO, if you don't have some understanding of rock & roll history eventually your going to run into a wall. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Forrer Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 Uh, Paul Warning, Peggy Sue has 4 chords. Just being pedantic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 [quote name='Marty Forrer' timestamp='1489461722' post='3257134'] Uh, Paul Warning, Peggy Sue has 4 chords. Just being pedantic. [/quote] What's an 'F' between friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpondonBassed Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 http://basschat.co.uk/topic/302139-chuck-berry-et-alfunny-dep/page__view__findpost__p__3257098 This is relevant in my opinion. Wouldn't it be fair to say that BH among others made the "underground" music of the time popular? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 [quote name='Marty Forrer' timestamp='1489461722' post='3257134'] Uh, Paul Warning, Peggy Sue has 4 chords. Just being pedantic. [/quote]yep you are quite right, there is an Fing F in Peggy Sue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbayne Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 (edited) [quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1489480335' post='3257210'] yep you are quite right, there is an Fing F in Peggy Sue [/quote] Yes, quiet clever that. When you consider F# is the more popular related minor chord in the key of A in pop music. Edited March 14, 2017 by Hobbayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 [quote name='Hobbayne' timestamp='1489483607' post='3257246'] Yes, quiet clever that. When you consider F# is the more popular related minor chord in the key of A in pop music. [/quote]It doesn't quite fit in with music theory does it? another song I know that does something similiar (I'm sure there are loads of others) is The Ramones (another Holly Ramones link ) is Sheena is a Punk Rocker, chords C F G A , but in the middle bit it throws in a Bb, very effective though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 Most things fit in with music theory, even the 'Buddy Holly Chord/Interval' (as is known in some circles, or Flatted (lower) Submediant 'b VI'). It's been around for ever. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submediant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the boy Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1489448726' post='3257116'] IMO, all the successful early rock & roll stars matter in one way or the other. IMO, if you don't have some understanding of rock & roll history eventually your going to run into a wall. Blue [/quote] Or roll into a wall made of rocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 (edited) [quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1489487134' post='3257281'] The Ramones [/quote] Indeed. Even a song as apparently simple as [url="https://youtu.be/6siGKxcKol0"]Rockaway Beach[/url] has some interesting little twists and turns. A particular pitfall for the unwary is the odd little bit after the choruses. Likewise, [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlMhDfHsfDI"]Bonzo goes to Bitburg[/url] is distinguished by an almost Wagnerian reluctance to resolve the vocal part. The listener briefly experiences relief after the key change when bells pick out a sparse pattern around the chords. Then it's back to the grind. Perhaps the Ramones' interest in dislocated chord passages and twisty arrangements was driven by Johnny's refusal to play solos (or minor chords ) [color=#faebd7].[/color] Edited March 14, 2017 by skankdelvar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 [quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1489507091' post='3257521'] Indeed. Even a song as apparently simple as [url="https://youtu.be/6siGKxcKol0"]Rockaway Beach[/url] has some interesting little twists and turns. A particular pitfall for the unwary is the odd little bit after the choruses. Likewise, [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlMhDfHsfDI"]Bonzo goes to Bitburg[/url] is distinguished by an almost Wagnerian reluctance to resolve the vocal part. The listener briefly experiences relief after the key change when bells pick out a sparse pattern around the chords. Then it's back to the grind. Perhaps the Ramones' interest in dislocated chord passages and twisty arrangements was driven by Johnny's refusal to play solos (or minor chords ) [color=#faebd7].[/color] [/quote]never knew you were a Ramones aficionado Skank (doffs cap) but yes they are are all sorts of interesting twists in their songs, in fact you'd be hard pressed to find any of their songs that only have 3 chords though I suspect the reason for the lack of minor chords is they sound crap when played with distortion, and I'm not sure he was good enough to play solo's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 (edited) Bit of a rarity. http://youtu.be/H18AMREUUnk Definitely inspired by classic rock n roll. Edited March 14, 2017 by Cato Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 [quote name='Cato' timestamp='1489511303' post='3257561'] Bit of a rarity. Definitely inspired by classis rock n roll. [/quote] Croikey! I knew he sometimes played single note passages (California Sun) but bent-note Chuck-isms? I may have to go and lie down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 (edited) [quote name='Cato' timestamp='1489511303' post='3257561'] Bit of a rarity. [media]http://youtu.be/H18AMREUUnk[/media] Definitely inspired by classis rock n roll. [/quote]I've obviously underestimated Johnny's guitar playing abilities great clip though Edited March 15, 2017 by PaulWarning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 (edited) [quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1489519319' post='3257646'] I've obviously uninterested Johnny's guitar playing abilities great clip though [/quote] Probably not. There was quite a lot of lead work on their later stuff,mostly short little twiddly bits on intros etc. which were apparently nearly all played by producer Daniel del Rey. Johnny certainly didn't play those parts live on the one occasion I was privileged enough to see them. Edited March 14, 2017 by Cato Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 [quote name='Cato' timestamp='1489520317' post='3257656'] Probably not. There was quite a lot of lead work on their later stuff,mostly short little twiddly bits on intros etc. which was apparently nearly all played by producer Daniel del Rey. Johnny certainly didn't play those parts live on the one occasion I was privileged enough to see them. [/quote]yes, one of my many favourite Ramones songs, Chasing the Night, had a guitar solo in it on the studio version, they played it on the Old Grey Whistle Test and just missed the solo out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 [quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1489507091' post='3257521'] Indeed. Even a song as apparently simple as [url="https://youtu.be/6siGKxcKol0"]Rockaway Beach[/url] has some interesting little twists and turns. A particular pitfall for the unwary is the odd little bit after the choruses. Likewise, [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlMhDfHsfDI"]Bonzo goes to Bitburg[/url] is distinguished by an almost Wagnerian reluctance to resolve the vocal part. The listener briefly experiences relief after the key change when bells pick out a sparse pattern around the chords. Then it's back to the grind. Perhaps the Ramones' interest in dislocated chord passages and twisty arrangements was driven by Johnny's refusal to play solos (or minor chords ) [color=#faebd7].[/color] [/quote] Rockaway Beach was a cool place to hang. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1489547076' post='3257836'] Rockaway Beach was a cool place to hang. Blue [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 [quote name='lowdown' timestamp='1489477269' post='3257168'] What's an 'F' between friends. [/quote] Isn't that what they call "with benefits"..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpondonBassed Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 I always thought of friends with benefits as nooky on the dole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandad Posted August 19, 2020 Author Share Posted August 19, 2020 (edited) Edited August 19, 2020 by grandad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouMa Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 On 11/03/2017 at 12:24, Downdown said: Buddy Holly showed that you didn't need to be a guitar virtuoso to write good songs (personally I think it can be disadvantage) 3 chords will do it, it's the lyrics and the melody line that's important, the Ramones did the same thing years later Er, what about all those early blues players, or do we discount them because they were poor and black? Buddy Holly was just one of the first to tap into an already well established genre and repackage it for the post-war baby boomers. More marketing creativity than musical creativity I'd say. If you play some Buddy songs the way he did they are actually more complicated than you think not just12 bar and open chords. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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