New Head & Cab Day

[LukeFRC]

I'm willing to bet that the Eich t1000 amp isn't to much different to the tecamp puma 1000 I used to have - in which case the we and compressor are just perfect

[Phil Starr]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1499850490' post='3334008']
Careful, there seems to be 2 different measuring systems at work here.

The 1200 watts of the 210LNT is not RMS.

It's AES which, while it's supposed to be the more accurate figure, is actually less than the RMS figure. A quote I've seen is that 800 watts AES is the equivalent to 600 watts RMS.

The RMS figure will be about a third less.
[/quote]

For most people AES figures are probably more relevent than RMS, certainly a lot more reliable than any of the advertising scams of 'peak power' or 'music power'

What would be the best test of a speaker? For most of us the most useful would be to blast music at full power for several hours and if it survives then that speaker can handle that power. AES is an attempt to do just that by soaking the speaker with music frequencies appropriate for the speaker for two hours.

RMS power uses a single frequency sine wave and is often based upon temperature rise in the voice coil, if the speaker stays below say 250C then it passes. That's really good for a manufacturer as it gives them a way of testing a batch of speakers to destruction and is an objective repeatable test but doesn't give much idea of real life.


The problem with real life music testing is to define music, Classical or Drum'n'Bass? To keep it objective we use all the frequencies filtered to an agreed standard for a set period of time so that speakers can be measured in the same way across the world and then compared fairly. There are two commonly used standards that are used to try and do that AES in the USA and IEC in most of the rest of the world. The UK is a member of the IEC and British Standards are aligned with the IEC as are DIN standards in Germany. The details of the testing procedures have slight technical differences from AES but give pretty much the same results and you'll even see manufacturers give a AES/IEC rating.

So you can trust AES/IEC ratings, probably better than RMS ones. There is legislation around them and standard test procedures where something roughly like music has been put through real speakers. That doesn't mean you can't break a 1000W speaker with a 1000W amp or that you would blow it instantly with a 2000W amp, there's no legislation that can account for operator error

More reading if you are curious from EAW http://eaw.com/docs/6_Technical_Information/StudyHall_and_TechNotes/Power_Handling.pdf and JBL https://www.jblpro.com/pub/technote/spkpwfaq.pdf

Edited July 13, 2017 by Phil Starr

[Al Krow]

Excellent, thanks Phil.

[chris_b]

If I was cynical I would say that AES makes speakers look sexier by allowing a manufacturer to claim his speaker can handle 1200 watts rather than the 800 watts of the RMS rating.

[stevie]

There's certainly a lot of truth in that, but the AES standard is accepted throughout the industry now and provides a useful basis for comparisons, even though some people think it's a bit lame (the test only lasts 2 hours, for example).

Nice summary, Phil.

Edited July 13, 2017 by stevie

[MOSCOWBASS]

[quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1497298101' post='3317183'] Hey - I'm guessing you've managed to use this in "anger" on several occasions now - be really good to hear your thoughts? This does look like one helluva great cab and a complete "one cab" solution. Just seen you [i]also[/i] have a BF Compact. Okay I appreciate we are talking about £600 for Gen 3 BF Super Compact vs £800 for this Vanderkley so they're not quite in the same price bracket, but it would be really interesting to hear how the two cabs A/B (apart from the massively greater power handling of the Vanderkley). [/quote]

I would be interested as well, to hear what Bridgehouse thinks about the 210LNT. I have a BF BB2, I'm happy with, but always looking Anybody compared the two?

[Al Krow]

[quote name='MOSCOWBASS' timestamp='1501773531' post='3347281']
I would be interested as well, to hear what Bridgehouse thinks about the 210LNT. I have a BF BB2, I'm happy with, but always looking Anybody compared the two?
[/quote]

You should also check out the Vanderkley vs BF thread...

[Bridgehouse]

Sorry - I've been rather busy!

As pointed out, I've made a few comments in the other thread about the VK vs BF debate.

However, WRT the VK specifically, it's the only cab I use live. It's exactly the sound I'm looking for, the EICH head is very well rounded and precise - best of all, I also use the setup to go straight into the power amp from my Helix - the bass amp models are superb and they sound very good indeed through the EICH and VK combo...

[MOSCOWBASS]

Thank you😀

[Mellowman]

Hi all, this is almost the set up I intend to buy very soon except the Vanderkley 4x10 instead at 4 ohms. Could this be the "one cab" solution I would dearly love along with probably the best amp? I don't know yet but this thread has been so informative. Thanks for posting Bridgehouse, I think you may have made my mind up for me after many months of deliberating. It looks so cool and, I presume, sounds fantastic.
I would love to hear more about it from you in the very near future. Especially the versatility of the amp and the cab together.
The headroom is so important to me as I have a noisy drummer to contend with every time I play with the loudest kit so with the 4x10 and Eich, I have room to add speakers if things aren't enough although not cheap by any standards but as needs must.
So off to Bass Direct soon to give my credit card a hammering