Uber-newbie string question re bowing

[Ajoten]

I've been playing DB a mere 2 weeks so am at a loss re several things, but I am finding arco HARD (but fun). I find that when I pluck the strings I can intonate *fairly* well, but when bowing tuning sounds well off. Also, particularly on G string, I struggle to get a nice clean sound, and it's always squealy/squeaky/harmonicky (is that a word?)

Now, I'm well aware I currently have no technique or knowledge, but how much, if any, of these issues are due to the person I bought the bass off stringing it with slap strings? I read that gut strings aren't "good" for bowing, but I don't know how that manifests itself. For all I know I'll put orchestral strings on and have the same problem coz it's the workman not the tools.

Apparently the current strings are Innovation Silver Slap.

(Note - yes I am having lessons, but have only had one so far and for domestic reasons it'll be a while before the next... and waiting is no fun compared to forum ;-) )

Any comments welcome.

[TheRev]

Innovation Silver slaps do not work well with a bow. The synthetic wrap (nylon??) is too slippery for the bow to grip the string and get it vibrating. Even if you can get the string moving, it sounds pretty nasty...

Innovation Braided are the best (Innovation) choice for arco, followed by the Honeys. Both will be higher tension than the Silver Slaps so you'll probably fnd slapping the Honeys (oo-err...) a bit of a challenge.

[Lazurus]

I have Silver slaps on my UB, and also very new to the upright. You can get a reasonable sound arco, but its not what they were designed for, it was suggested to me to roughen the area the bow uses on the strings with 600 grit fine abrasive, I haven't as I didn't want to risk spoiling the strings. I do however use loads of Rosin on both bow, and the said area of the strings makes a big difference, but ultimately if you want Arco you will need more suitable strings. There are many threads on hybrid strings....... and so starts a long search for the perfect string set..........

Try a cheapy set of steel strings of Fleabay the will be hard on your hands for pizz but may save you money in the long run as a comparison.

[Ajoten]

Have to say I was somewhat taken aback at the price of strings. Only "cheap" ones are of an Alice brand which no doubt the old DB lags will try and steer me clear of.

[quote name='Lazurus' timestamp='1489406049' post='3256588']...Try a cheapy set of steel strings of Fleabay...
[/quote]

[TheRev]

[quote name='Ajoten' timestamp='1489408349' post='3256613']
Have to say I was somewhat taken aback at the price of strings. Only "cheap" ones are of an Alice brand which no doubt the old DB lags will try and steer me clear of.
[/quote]

Now you listen here young man....... ;-)

I'd say use whatever works best for you - if that happens to be a £50 set off Ebay then happy days!
However...
There's a reason that lots of people use Thomastik Spirocores or Evah Pirazzi - they're very playable and they sound good and they last. In the grand scheme of things, a set of Innovation braided are cheap (by double bass string standards) and if you like them, there's no reason for you to buy another set of strings for the rest of your playing life - they will last that long.

Check out the DB 'for sale' forum - the old DB lags are always selling off sets that they bought but didn't like or their bass didn't like. You can save 50% off the cost of a new set if you're patient enough to wait for the right set to come up.

[Ajoten]

Reckon perhaps getting one posh string every other month might help me get a set without alerting The Chancellor...

[TPJ]

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/301373-string-clearout-velvet-innovation/"]These Honeys are dead cheap[/url] Well worth a shot to try them out.

[Marc S]

As others have already said, Innovation Silver (and Gold) slaps are generally not that good for bowing.
i too have heard that improves if you roughen the string surface a little - just where the bow will be, of course!
However, I have also chickened out of doing this.

Luckily for me, I have a DB and an EUB - so I have a set of Innovations on one, and Spirocore Weich's on another. That said, I'm not overly keen on the sound I get when trying to bow the Weich's either! That may be down to my poor technique, or it may be down to the strings - I don't really know...

In the world of DB, strings is not just a topic, but several entire volumes. In the bass guitar world, it's pretty much roundwounds or flats, now ith half rounds, and what gauge you prefer - however, in DB terms it can be a bit of a minefield - I'd just look on it as an exploratory journey though. You might just suddenly come accross a set of strings that blow you away, and do and sound just what you want...

As TheRev says, used strings often come up in the marketplace on here, as other players are often trying out new and different string combinations. Those Innovation Honeys are good strings BTW, and represent good value for money at that price - not sure how good they are for bowing though - I had a bass with them on when I first started, and I didn't get a decent sound when bowing - again, probably my technique

Good luck with your search, but don't be impatient - stick with your current strings, and keep trying to improve your playing

EDIT: Uber important - if you've not changed strings on a DB before - you must take care that the sound-post doesn't fall over! i.e. change strings preferably one at a time! Loss of tension through taking strings off, can lead to the sound-post falling over, and you don't want that

Edited March 14, 2017 by Marc S

[TheRev]

I've used sandpaper on super silvers and Presto Nylons to improve bow grip - it certainly improves grip but not tone...

I have Spiro weichs and innovation braided on my basses. Both can be played arco or pizz but the Spiros are much better for pizz and the Braided better for arco. I actually quite like the Braided for pizz as well, they have quite a nice old school dark tone. IMHO, for pizz the braided E and A are the best sounding E and A of the whole Innovation range.

Edited March 14, 2017 by TheRev

[NickA]

My last set of strings cost £130. But that was 13 years ago. £10 a year is much less than I spend on guitar strings.

As for getting good Arco .. on ANY strings .. use horse hair not synthetic. Use LOTS of rosin. Push hard enough to get the spring vibrating then ease off a bit. The closer to the bridge you bow, the louder and richer the sound, but the harder it is to get the sound out. Start at the bottom edge of the finger board. Take care to bow exactly across the strings, if you scrape the bow diagonally or rock it back and forth in an arc, you won't get it to sound. Those harmonics are always an issue, takes practice and care to get the bassy fundamental out.

Enjoy.

Edited March 28, 2017 by NickA

[JoeEvans]

You always sound less in tune when bowing, because you can hear the note more clearly. That's why it's very good for your intonation to practice with the bow...

[NickA]

... true; and a bowed note is always a little sharp anyway cause of the additional tension on the strings. (watch a tuner when you play pizz)