Is the UK Top 40 broken?

[BigRedX]

In many ways I think that streaming is a far more accurate indicator of what is popular as opposed to sales for exactly the reasons that Happy Jack has said. And I don't think it's any more or less open to abuse than previous methods of calculating the chart were.

Sure I can stick my band's latest release on continuous play on Spotify and rack up the micro-payments that it generates, but unless I can persuade a few hundred (if not thousand) other people to do it during the same week, my activities are not going to affect the chart standings.

I think the decline in importance of the charts for us "older" basschatters has less to do with our tastes stagnating (although that's always a cause), and more to do with the way we consume music these days. Since pretty much everything is available on demand, there is little reason to be bombarded with the usual crap that the radio plays in order to hear the few songs that you like each day, and therefore it is very easy to lose touch with what is popular. Even if you are constantly on the lookout for new music and artists it is much easier to do that without exposing yourself to what Radio and TV think you should be listening to.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1489489215' post='3257305']
Yep. Set up a server with 100 virtual machines streaming the same song over and over again. You could increase the figures by 300,000 a week.

Would be fairly easy to do at home in your bedroom, assuming Spotify isn't watching for this kind of behaviour.
[/quote]

IME you would need to set up a separate Spotify account on each virtual machine, and they would have to be full paid-for accounts as the free version will stop playing without user intervention every couple of hours.

[SpondonBassed]

[quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1489486236' post='3257273']
It's like the chat room for SAGA Holidays in here.

Not that I lurk in the SAGA Holidays chat room and am able to make this comparison from personal experience, of course.

That is all. As you were.
[/quote]

SAGA; Sex And Games for the Aged. I'm sold on that. Where do I take out a life time subscription please?

[lowdown]

[quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1489486236' post='3257273']
It's like the chat room for SAGA Holidays in here.

Not that I lurk in the SAGA Holidays chat room and am able to make this comparison from personal experience, of course.

That is all. As you were.
[/quote]

I depped on a Two Week Saga Cruise, about 8/9 years ago.
Couldn't play anything above about 60 bpm, without someone falling over and breaking a bone.
And that was just the band...Horrible experience.

[Naetharu]

It strikes me that Streaming has been wonderful for music fans but rather disastrous for the music industry.

I love streaming as it gives me a means of finding new bands that I would likely never have otherwise come across. Just this month I've been listening to St Paul and the Broken Bones (wonderful modern soul band), Moon Hooch (dance music played with live saxophones) and Cloud Cult (Indie-rock with top-notch song-writing) all of whom I have no doubt I would have completely missed were it not for streaming. It's not like they would have found air time on the radio. Streaming is an amazing way of getting below the fashionable and obvious acts that the record companies push and finding some really amazing music.

On the other hand, it makes things much more messy and it pretty much ruins the traditional industry. The dark side of that is that it does not pay fairly to the artists involved. In the case of Spottily, the money goes out to the most listen to tracks and not on a listen-per-listen basis. That means small bands get screwed.

The up side is that it becomes ever more difficult for the music industry to dominate as it used to do, with simple and affordable avenues open to small bands that were never there before.

[TimR]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1489489670' post='3257312']


IME you would need to set up a separate Spotify account on each virtual machine, and they would have to be full paid-for accounts as the free version will stop playing without user intervention every couple of hours.
[/quote]

Yes. I'm sure there is some way to make it unviable.

Reading on the BBC website it's weighted so 150 streams=1 download anyway.

[Happy Jack]

I'm astonished that so far no one has called out Ralph on his not-so-subtle sub-text with this topic ... today's charts PROVE that Ed Whatshisname is actually BETTER than The Beatles, and he's just not man enough to admit it!!!!!!!!

[TrevorR]

[size=3][font=Calibri][color=#000000]The truth is, the charts have ALWAYS been rubbish. Here is the full top 5 best-selling singles of the 60s in the UK and the rest of the non-Beatles top 20. This is NOT the list that the music journo in one of those would “I Heart The 60s” clip shows would predict. And not what any of us would predict…[/color][/font][/size]

[size=3][font=Calibri][color=#000000]No Who, no Rolling Stones, no Animals, no Yardbirds no[font=Arial][color=#222222] Dylan, no Byrds, no Stax, no Motown[/color][/font]…[/color][/font][/size]

[b][size=3][font=Calibri][color=#000000]Best-selling singles of the 1960s in the UK[/color][/font][/size][/b]

[size=3][font=Calibri][color=#000000]1 [/color][color=#000000]"She Loves You" Beatles, The[/color][/font][/size]
[size=3][font=Calibri][color=#000000]2 [/color][color=#000000]"I Want to Hold Your Hand" Beatles, The [/color][/font][/size]
[size=3][font=Calibri][color=#000000]3 [/color][color=#000000]"Tears" Dodd, Ken [/color][/font][/size]
[size=3][font=Calibri][color=#000000]4 [/color][color=#000000]"Can't Buy Me Love" Beatles, The [/color][/font][/size]
[size=3][font=Calibri][color=#000000]5 [/color][color=#000000]"I Feel Fine" Beatles, The [/color][/font][/size][size=3][font=Calibri][color=#000000] [/color][/font][/size]

[size=3][font=Calibri][color=#000000]6 [/color][color=#000000]" The Carnival Is Over" Seekers, The [/color][/font][/size]
[size=3][font=Calibri][color=#000000]8 [/color][color=#000000]"Release Me" Humperdinck, Engelbert [/color][/font][/size]
[size=3][font=Calibri][color=#000000]9 [/color][color=#000000]"It's Now or Never" Presley, Elvis [/color][/font][/size]
[size=3][font=Calibri][color=#000000]10 [/color][color=#000000]"Green, Green Grass of Home" Jones, Tom [/color][/font][/size]
[size=3][font=Calibri][color=#000000]11 [/color][color=#000000]"The Last Waltz" Humperdinck, Engelbert [/color][/font][/size]
[size=3][font=Calibri][color=#000000]12 [/color][color=#000000]"Stranger on the Shore" Bilk, Acker [/color][/font][/size]
[size=3][font=Calibri][color=#000000]13 [/color][color=#000000]"I Remember You" Ifield, Frank [/color][/font][/size]
[size=3][font=Calibri][color=#000000]14 [/color][color=#000000]"TheThe Young Ones" Richard, Cliff and The Shadows [/color][/font][/size]
[size=3][font=Calibri][color=#000000]15 [/color][color=#000000]"Sugar, Sugar" Archies, The [/color][/font][/size]
[size=3][font=Calibri][color=#000000]16 [/color][color=#000000]" TheThe Next Time" / "Bachelor Boy" Richard, Cliff and The Shadows[/color][/font][/size]
[size=3][font=Calibri][color=#000000]17 [/color][color=#000000]"Telstar" Tornados, The [/color][/font][/size]
[size=3][font=Calibri][color=#000000]19 [/color][color=#000000]"Two Little Boys" Harris, Rolf [/color][/font][/size]

Edited March 14, 2017 by TrevorR

[EliasMooseblaster]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1489500602' post='3257445']
I'm astonished that so far no one has called out Ralph on his not-so-subtle sub-text with this topic ... today's charts PROVE that Ed Whatshisname is actually BETTER than The Beatles, and he's just not man enough to admit it!!!!!!!!


[/quote]

Well...if we work on the assumption that this topic now means that Spotify is now the only true arbiter of taste and popularity (and nobody questions this assumption in the slightest), I did a very quick bit of (admittedly somewhat slapdash) research and found that The Beatles' most played track has been streamed some 63 million times. Ed Gingerbonce's most played track has received 523 million streams.

I shall let the statistics speak for themselves and go back to being mystified.

[TrevorR]

And the 1970s were WORSE!


[b][size=3][font="Calibri"][color="#000000"]Best selling single of the 1970s[/color][/font][/size][/b]

[size=3][font="Calibri"][color="#000000"]1 "Mull of Kintyre"/"Girls' School" Wings [/color][/font][/size]
[size=3][font="Calibri"][color="#000000"]2 "Rivers of Babylon"/"Brown Girl in the Ring" Boney M. [/color][/font][/size]
[size=3][font="Calibri"][color="#000000"]3 "You're the One That I Want" John Travolta and Olivia Newton John [/color][/font][/size]
[size=3][font="Calibri"][color="#000000"]4 "Mary's Boy Child" Boney M. [/color][/font][/size]
[size=3][font="Calibri"][color="#000000"]5 "Summer Nights" John Travolta and Olivia Newton John [/color][/font][/size]

[size=3][font="Calibri"][color="#000000"]6 "Y.M.C.A." Village People [/color][/font][/size]
[size=3][font="Calibri"][color="#000000"]7 "Bohemian Rhapsody" Queen [/color][/font][/size]
[size=3][font="Calibri"][color="#000000"]8 "Heart of Glass" Blondie [/color][/font][/size]
[size=3][font="Calibri"][color="#000000"]9 "Bright Eyes" Art Garfunkel [/color][/font][/size]
[size=3][font="Calibri"][color="#000000"]10 "Don't Give Up on Us" David Soul [/color][/font][/size]

[size=3][font="Calibri"][color="#000000"]11 "I Love You Love Me Love" Gary Glitter [/color][/font][/size]
[size=3][font="Calibri"][color="#000000"]12 "Merry Xmas Everybody" Slade [/color][/font][/size]
[size=3][font="Calibri"][color="#000000"]13 "Save Your Kisses for Me" Brotherhood of Man [/color][/font][/size]
[size=3][font="Calibri"][color="#000000"]14 "Eye Level" Simon Park Orchestra [/color][/font][/size]
[size=3][font="Calibri"][color="#000000"]15 "Long Haired Lover from Liverpool" Little Jimmy Osmond [/color][/font][/size]

[size=3][font="Calibri"][color="#000000"]16 "Another Brick in the Wall (Part 2)" Pink Floyd [/color][/font][/size]
[size=3][font="Calibri"][color="#000000"]17 "Don't Cry for Me Argentina" Julie Covington [/color][/font][/size]
[size=3][font="Calibri"][color="#000000"]18 "I'd Like to Teach the World to Sing" The New Seekers [/color][/font][/size]
[size=3][font="Calibri"][color="#000000"]19 "Tie a Yellow Ribbon Round the Ole Oak Tree" Dawn featuring Tony Orlando [/color][/font][/size]
[size=3][font="Calibri"][color="#000000"]20 "Under the Moon of Love" Showaddywaddy [/color][/font][/size]

[Dood]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1489484707' post='3257265']
Oh bloody hell Dood, get a grip! I was talking about radio in general, not the BBC. I'd say more, but you've already dragged f***ing politics into this topic.
[/quote]

Guess I forgot the smiley

[silverfoxnik]

[quote name='EliasMooseblaster' timestamp='1489414646' post='3256691']
Read this opinion piece on The Grauniad this morning. As one of many people on this forum who's still releasing original material, I don't think I'm in any danger of bothering the UK Top 40 any time soon, but it made for interesting reading:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/musicblog/2017/mar/10/ed-sheeran-has-16-songs-in-the-top-20-and-its-a-sign-of-how-sick-the-charts-are

So...your thoughts? Do the charts still matter any more if a massively popular artist can now flood them with Spotify streaming figures? Do you agree with the author's premiss that this is actually leading to less diversity of music in the Top 40? Were you, like me, previously oblivious to the fact that these streaming figures contributed to this ranking of songs?


(Alternative Q: anyone want to explain the appeal of Mr Sheeran to me? I remain mystified.)
[/quote]

Good question and I read the same article too..

I don't think the charts, or should I say, the UK Top 40, matters like it did in the period between the 1950s and say, the late 1990s.

Since then the whole music business model has changed and because people can access music in so many ways now, the old monopoly of Radio 1/Top of the Pops/Top 40 just has no validity or meaning anymore.

As for Ed Sheeran, good luck to him - he's talented enough IMO and deserves his success. It's not his fault that there's a dearth of talented peers around him which helps to cast him in a much better light.

Plus, he at least writes his own songs and has control over his style and sound, which counts for a lot in my book.

Not that I have any of his music mind, I'm far too old and conservative in my tastes for that ! 😁

[ProfJames]

[quote name='paul_5' timestamp='1489416243' post='3256711']
Broken? I reckon they're fixed...
[/quote]

They have always been fixed IMHO and from what I was told (and saw) many years back

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1489487593' post='3257289']
is there a poll anywhere on how old Basschaters are? we do seem to be a moaning old bunch don't we.
[/quote]

Detailed audience research conducted by our forum overlords indicates (i) that we are predominantly men in the autumn of our lives and (ii) we are no strangers to pessimism.

[quote name='krispn' timestamp='1489480772' post='3257216']
Wasn't radio always a bit biased in what it played and was as much an influence on what people could hear/was being bought as much as reflecting what was being bought?
[/quote]

In the early days (ie up to the middle of the 1960's) most DJ's chose the music for their shows. As one might expect, the system was open to widespread abuse, though some argue that there was a greater chance of 'good' music breaking through.

Then the Yanks got into rigid station play-listing (where a programme director chooses the music with input from assistants and - sometimes - DJs) and the UK followed suit some years later. Computerised play-listing and music rotation started in the 1980s and it's been downhill ever since.

[TrevorR]

The singles chart as we know it no longer works because the model on which it is based has changed fundamentally. It uses to be based on a scarce, time-limited resource with an intrinsic and emotional cachet. Back then tracks were specifically chosen to be singles and only those counted for chart purposes. The then needed to be physically pressed and distributed but were only available to buy for a limited time -even the most popular. Eventually no more were pressed and the supply ran out. Therefore there was a constant churn of songs that could be chart co tenders and their chart life was strictly limited. Therefore you got the shape of the charts we used to know which gave an indication of which NEW songs were attracting the most purchases in any week. A proxy for popularity.

Things are fundamentally different now. There is little of no selective or physical barrier which limits the contenders for a chart place. Any track can appear in the singles chart. So a whole album can be eligible at the same time - that could/would never have happened back in the day. It simply wasn't the business model. They also now exist pretty much eternally so may never naturally drop out of the chart through lack of supply. So there is no natural churn. Songs aren't bought they are consumed on Spotify so. Again there is no entry barrier. All this adds up to the Sheeran chart being an inevitability.

I do know one person who is delighted though. My chum Amy who co-wrote four of the songs on the album!