Aguilar Tone Hammer 350 & 500 big price difference, why?

[Happy Jack]

You may have missed this, since it has been posted in the wrong (IMHO) section:

http://basschat.co.uk/topic/300747-l200-thomann-the-t-amp-tsa-v-7oo-multi-channel-power-amp/

It's a bit heavier than a TH350 mind ...

[eude]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1489573119' post='3257982']
Whilst not related to the TH500 as it wasn't around, The Bass Merchant used to order Aguilar in directly and the pricing was much fairer. Another example of a bizarre business structure of having 'middlepeople' who essentially act as dealers, storing the product....sometimes helping with problems (often, it's just easier to get hold of the company directly, e.g. like Genz Benz).
[/quote]

+1
I bought an Aggie GS112 from Bass Merchant pre UK distributor for about £300 new. I appreciate prices go up, but they're more than twice that now and it's a 15 year old design!
I expect getting a UK distributor will have done more harm than good for the brand in the UK.

Eude

[NJE]

I have Aguilar kit, I really like it and it has been good for me but the new prices are ridiculously high. One part of it could also be that (as far as I know) all of it is still made in the US, New York I think? That has to make productions costs high to start with.

Look out for a secondhand head on here, they always pop up as do the cabs. When I looked at getting a TH500 secondhand they were very good value, but in the end I really didn't need anything that the TH350 didn't have, its plenty powerful for me but I always use it at 4ohm.

[bassjim]

Not sure of when in the last 5 years I've needed more than 350 watts. Always been plenty loud enough with 2 cabs running.

I think if you like the tone you get with it, go for the TH350. I think bigger amps volume wise are good if you regularly get to stand 10-15 feet away from them on a big stage. Other wise you could get a regular " can you turn it down" request when you are stood close to your rig but cant hear it so well. The "louder" amp may be throwing/projecting your sound further out than you realise. Especially when cramped in together next to a drummer and a gitard with gig induced sensibility loss.

[Osiris]

There's some great advice and information above guys, cheers, I really appreciate it.

There seems to be a consensus that the TH 350 will be probably enough for my needs, a mixture of pub gigs and wedding/party type gigs.

In terms of volume, we're perhaps not the quietest band on the average pub gig, but we're by no means the loudest either.
My gigging cab is a 4 ohm, 600 watt, Tecamp M212, which according to the specs has a sensitivity of 101 dB (although I have no idea if that's good, bad or average!).
Bass is almost always through the PA too unless we're in a smaller venue when we try and keep things down anyway.
Tonally, I tend to leave the eq flat with maybe subtle adjustments to suit the room if need be, and I like a bit of warmth to the tone too, not overdrive but a touch warmth/hair/grit whatever you wish to call it.

Is the 350 likely to be man enough for this? Form what a few of you have said above, I think that it probably will be.

It took me all of about 20 seconds fiddling with the TH 500 to get a sound that I liked and think would work well with the band and I love the simplicity of it.

The only thing preventing me ordering one right now is that I'm hoping to try the Mesa Boogie Subway D800 at the weekend to see how I get on with that

Edited March 16, 2017 by Osiris

[Bridgehouse]

[quote name='Osiris' timestamp='1489667224' post='3258767']
There's some great advice and information above guys, cheers, I really appreciate it.

There seems to be a consensus that the TH 350 will be probably enough for my needs, a mixture of pub gigs and wedding/party type gigs.

In terms of volume, we're perhaps not the quietest band on the average pub gig, but we're by no means the loudest either.
My gigging cab is a 4 ohm, 600 watt, Tecamp M212, which according to the specs has a sensitivity of 101 dB (although I have no idea if that's good, bad or average!).
Bass is almost always through the PA too unless we're in a smaller venue when we try and keep things down anyway.
Tonally, I tend to leave the eq flat with maybe subtle adjustments to suit the room if need be, and I like a bit of warmth to the tone too, not overdrive but a touch warmth/hair/grit whatever you wish to call it.

Is the 350 likely to be man enough for this? Form what a few of you have said above, I think that it probably will be.

It took me all of about 20 seconds fiddling with the TH 500 to get a sound that I liked and think would work well with the band and I love the simplicity of it.

The only thing preventing me ordering one right now is that I'm hoping to try the Mesa Boogie Subway D800 at the weekend to see how I get on with that
[/quote]

If you are considering the D800 then have a look at the EICH range as well - I preferred the EICH to the D800....

[Osiris]

[quote name='Bridgehouse' timestamp='1489667506' post='3258773']
If you are considering the D800 then have a look at the EICH range as well - I preferred the EICH to the D800....
[/quote]

Just had a quick look, they look interesting.
Just out of interest, what it is you preferred about the Eich over the D800?

[Bridgehouse]

[quote name='Osiris' timestamp='1489668897' post='3258788']


Just had a quick look, they look interesting.
Just out of interest, what it is you preferred about the Eich over the D800?
[/quote]

Good question. Well, I went for the T1000 - I suspect the T900 is closer to the D800, but in brief:

- To get the same functionality, I would have needed the 800+ (fx loop etc) and it was well north of £1000
- Tone wise, I felt the EICH just had more range and tweak in them - specially the T1000, and the built in compressor was nice..
- The killer for me was the flexibility of the T1000 for what was broadly the same cash as the D800+ - you get 2 500w class D amps in the T1000 - so you can mix and match cabs with different ohms, you can set the volume for each power amp separately to balance cabs out, or you can bridge them for the full 1000w.

To me, the EICH sounded more hifi, more rounded and more complete as a tone compared to the D800 though the same Vanderkley cab...

[Osiris]

[quote name='Bridgehouse' timestamp='1489669850' post='3258805']
Good question. Well, I went for the T1000 - I suspect the T900 is closer to the D800, but in brief:

- To get the same functionality, I would have needed the 800+ (fx loop etc) and it was well north of £1000
- Tone wise, I felt the EICH just had more range and tweak in them - specially the T1000, and the built in compressor was nice..
- The killer for me was the flexibility of the T1000 for what was broadly the same cash as the D800+ - you get 2 500w class D amps in the T1000 - so you can mix and match cabs with different ohms, you can set the volume for each power amp separately to balance cabs out, or you can bridge them for the full 1000w.

To me, the EICH sounded more hifi, more rounded and more complete as a tone compared to the D800 though the same Vanderkley cab...
[/quote]

Thank you, I'll try and get over to Bass direct who have some of the Eich amps in stock so I can have a listen, although hi-fi is not really what I'm looking for

[Bridgehouse]

[quote name='Osiris' timestamp='1489673940' post='3258868']


Thank you, I'll try and get over to Bass direct who have some of the Eich amps in stock so I can have a listen, although hi-fi is not really what I'm looking for
[/quote]

Got mine from there. The Vanderkley cabs are better than the Mesas IMHO

[Osiris]

[quote name='Bridgehouse' timestamp='1489675828' post='3258891']
Got mine from there. The Vanderkley cabs are better than the Mesas IMHO
[/quote]

I'm only after a new amp at the minute. The cab that I have gigged with regularly for the past 5 or 6 years is a Tecamp M212 which, I believe, a direct ancestor of the Eich gear, so if I was to end up with an Eich amp, I think they'd be a superb match.

Although I still haven't ruled out the TH 350 yet!

[Bridgehouse]

[quote name='Osiris' timestamp='1489733206' post='3259235']


I'm only after a new amp at the minute. The cab that I have gigged with regularly for the past 5 or 6 years is a Tecamp M212 which, I believe, a direct ancestor of the Eich gear, so if I was to end up with an Eich amp, I think they'd be a superb match.

Although I still haven't ruled out the TH 350 yet!
[/quote]

Worth trying them all mate! I tried as many as I could and I'm really glad I did. You will find the one that suits your ear..

[Musicman20]

The Tecamp cabinets, particularly the one you have, are/is really good. I would stick with that cabinet! I sold mine to help with moving house but I regret it. In the end I picked up a Genz NX212T which isn't so far off so I'm happy.

Agreed that an Eich amp would be a great match.

Edited March 17, 2017 by Musicman20

[Osiris]

The Eich amps look good although are possibly a bit too hi-fi/clean for what I'm after. I definitely need to, and will, try before I buy.

The AGS on the TH is the most convincing tube emulation that I've yet heard and is what makes them the current leaders on my shortlist. It's the tone I have in my head and the one I'm hankering for. However, I do wonder if the TH's are a bit of a one trick pony, although if they are, it's a trick that'll take some beating - for me if not for anyone else.

The plan is to test drive the Mesa subway at the weekend to see that can do. On paper it appears to be more versatile than the TH but in reality I probably wouldn't use the extra tone shaping features. But the extra headroom could well be useful for clearer tones at higher volume.

I also had the chance to have a blast through OpticalEye's Quilter bass block at the weekend. It's a bit of an oddball for sure but sounded brilliant through his pair of Barefaced 1 x 10's. It's not exactly the tone I'm currently after but is much more versatile than you'd think and is definitely something that I think I could happily live and gig with. I'd love like to hear what it's capable of at gig volume. The bass response from it is a joy to behold, deep, punchy and powerful but without being overpowering. It's almost impossible to describe it, you need to hear to fully appreciate it.

Edited March 17, 2017 by Osiris

[Osiris]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1489746647' post='3259372']
The Tecamp cabinets, particularly the one you have, are/is really good. I would stick with that cabinet! I sold mine to help with moving house but I regret it. In the end I picked up a Genz NX212T which isn't so far off so I'm happy.

[/quote]

Absolutely, I can't see any reason to change the cab at the minute as it is superb in every respect. It only weighs about 20 Kg and the tone is sublime. Great projection too, even stood right in front of it on a cramped gig I can hear every nuance of my playing. My intention is to gig it until one of us eventually keels over

Edited March 17, 2017 by Osiris

[Bridgehouse]

Bass Direct have the EICH and a tonehammer in, and a D800 - you can compare and contrast and choose your favourite flavour.

As an extra thought, if you find the EICH or D800 does a better job, you could always pick up the tonehammer pedal to get that sound when you need it. Less of a one trick pony then..?

[Musicman20]

[quote name='Bridgehouse' timestamp='1489752720' post='3259453']
Bass Direct have the EICH and a tonehammer in, and a D800 - you can compare and contrast and choose your favourite flavour.

As an extra thought, if you find the EICH or D800 does a better job, you could always pick up the tonehammer pedal to get that sound when you need it. Less of a one trick pony then..?
[/quote]

Good call! A clean amp with the TH pedal! Plus then you have the TH pedal for recording or gigs where you can just turn up with a high end DI.....OR, use the pedal with backlines that are supplied and get the TH tone.

[Bridgehouse]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1489752926' post='3259461']


Good call! A clean amp with the TH pedal! Plus then you have the TH pedal for recording or gigs where you can just turn up with a high end DI.....OR, use the pedal with backlines that are supplied and get the TH tone.
[/quote]

Yeah that's what I was thinking. You can then get a nice rounded head with lots of clean headroom and something that matches your cab well, without worrying about the dirty or warmer tones. The TH pedal will cover that. Get a B7K and you're done for any kind of dirt or vintage you might ever need.. and when you need super clean, you've got that too!

(And having the pedal in your bag for backup DI or for into supplied backline is a bonus)

[Treb]

The TH350 (and TH500) can do clean. Keep the drive down all the way, low-ish gain (with gain at its lowest it still produces sound) and use the master for volume. If I want more sparkle I pull the brightness knob on my DJ-Retro preamp.

[Osiris]

[quote name='Bridgehouse' timestamp='1489752720' post='3259453']
Bass Direct have the EICH and a tonehammer in, and a D800 - you can compare and contrast and choose your favourite flavour.

As an extra thought, if you find the EICH or D800 does a better job, you could always pick up the tonehammer pedal to get that sound when you need it. Less of a one trick pony then..?
[/quote]

Sounds like a plan!

Trouble is I'm out on a stag night tonight and may not be up to blasting anything at volume tomorrow, let alone driving....
I was thinking of heading out on Sunday to PMT in Cambridge, who have the subway in stock, as Bass direct aren't open on Sundays.
But you're right, it makes sense to compare a number of amps side by side with the same bass and cab.

And next weekend is the good lady's birthday so I doubt whether I'll be allowed out
But I'm in no immediate hurry, fortunately, so I can wait a couple of weeks if I have to.

[quote name='Treb' timestamp='1489753231' post='3259464']
The TH350 (and TH500) can do clean. Keep the drive down all the way, low-ish gain (with gain at its lowest it still produces sound) and use the master for volume. If I want more sparkle I pull the brightness knob on my DJ-Retro preamp.
[/quote]

Thank you, it's good to know that the TH will do clean even though I didn't experiment with clean sounds last week.

Edited March 17, 2017 by Osiris

[Osiris]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1489752926' post='3259461']
Good call! A clean amp with the TH pedal! Plus then you have the TH pedal for recording or gigs where you can just turn up with a high end DI.....OR, use the pedal with backlines that are supplied and get the TH tone.
[/quote]

Yes, that sounds like another good option to explore

[Bridgehouse]

Take your time, mate - you'll find the right mix.

[Osiris]

The Mesa seems to have had an obscene universal price hike over the past 24 hours. [size=4] [/size]

Yesterday, Andertons and PMT both had it listed at £739, which is the same ball park as amps of a similar spec from other manufacturers. Today, however, the list price has gone up to £875, an increase of nearly £150. That's an additional 20% on yesterday's price. This seems to be the list price for all UK stockists of the Subway D-800 and it includes existing stock too, so it's not as though there has a new shipment of the amps into the UK that carry the higher price tag.

Mesa have a bad reputation for their UK prices, but this is just taking the p***.

[markstuk]

[quote name='Osiris' timestamp='1489853956' post='3260365']
The Mesa seems to have had an obscene universal price hike over the past 24 hours.

Yesterday, Andertons and PMT both had it listed at £739, which is the same ball park as amps of a similar spec from other manufacturers. Today, however, the list price has gone up to £875, an increase of nearly £150. That's an additional 20% on yesterday's price. This seems to be the list price for all UK stockists of the Subway D-800 and it includes existing stock too, so it's not as though there has a new shipment of the amps into the UK that carry the higher price tag.

Mesa have a bad reputation for their UK prices, but this is just taking the p***.
[/quote]

It's not Mesa, it's Westside distribution that set the price.. Just bring one in from the US, they have universal power supplies...

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SubwayD800

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SubwayD800P

[Musicman20]

Another example of 'dealers' causing pricing issues. In 2017 we don't need 'dealers'.