velvetkevorkian Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 Did someone not post earlier that he sounds the same no matter what bass he is using? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budget bassist Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 I couldn't give a f*** what he uses, most of his tone is in the way he plays and his amplification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGH Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 [quote name='Josh' post='363697' date='Dec 26 2008, 02:29 PM']Ok fair enough thats the way you see it, but all your reply seems to reflect is both a dislike for morden Metal Bassists and Warwicks, which I expected and in some cases I'm forced to agree with you. But your seemingly much more moved by classic Metal which was and still is Fender driven. Thats what you prefer, I can't argue with you about that, why would I want to? Ultimatley niether of us are right, nor are we wrong. If anything Butler wasn't exactly fighting against much distorion back then and his tone has some crunch qaulities to it, so his tone was pretty much guaranteed to stand out, the same goes for JPJ and Steve Harris. P.S. Fieldy's tone dosen't deserve to even be called tone, it's mindless clicking.[/quote] Its no dissing of 'Modern' Bassists,nor Warwicks,its just the age old...."He uses X" advert vs whats actually used in the studio,I dont hate Warwicks at all,never had a beef with them,but they aint what they were when I started out...its an old complaint,but they changed summat in the early/mid 90s...But hey its a company decision,as is the endorsement rollcall...I recall an audition I had and one of the 'hooks' was a Warwick deal....I didnt get the job. There isnt such a thing as 'Classic' metal..theres just Good and sh*t,and then theres respect.... Geezer had to fight a war with Producers and engineers to get his 'sound' onto tape..and to say he was not fighting against distortion???? Kid are you crazy??? Iommi's tone EATS space,to make it heavy to quote 'With a heavy riff it just HAS to have distortion'...Sabbath IS Metal,yeah they made a few off the pace records,and the Ozzy stuff in the comeback years is ..file under..errrr...but the 'Heaven and Hell' stuff..that Lakland hes using is taken from the specs of the old P used from Black Sabbath to Master of reality. Ive noticed a few things in the 'modern' age....Not to many guitar solos and not many 3 pieces...I reckon with modern tones a 3 piece wouldnt stand up,and theres an awful lot of reliance on boxes and digi stuff to make up for lack of technique or just plain crap amplification..I used to diss the old duffers with only 20 frets,but they had a point and they had a tone that worked....I learnt that the hard way,and the tone still works..its still on records now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faithless Posted December 26, 2008 Author Share Posted December 26, 2008 [quote name='velvetkevorkian' post='363722' date='Dec 26 2008, 05:16 PM']Did someone not post earlier that he sounds the same no matter what bass he is using?[/quote] Yup, that's my words, mate... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-soar Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 [quote name='ARGH' post='363770' date='Dec 26 2008, 04:30 PM']Its no dissing of 'Modern' Bassists,nor Warwicks,its just the age old...."He uses X" advert vs whats actually used in the studio,I dont hate Warwicks at all,never had a beef with them,but they aint what they were when I started out...its an old complaint,but they changed summat in the early/mid 90s...But hey its a company decision,as is the endorsement rollcall...I recall an audition I had and one of the 'hooks' was a Warwick deal....I didnt get the job. There isnt such a thing as 'Classic' metal..theres just Good and sh*t,and then theres respect.... Geezer had to fight a war with Producers and engineers to get his 'sound' onto tape..and to say he was not fighting against distortion???? Kid are you crazy??? Iommi's tone EATS space,to make it heavy to quote 'With a heavy riff it just HAS to have distortion'...Sabbath IS Metal,yeah they made a few off the pace records,and the Ozzy stuff in the comeback years is ..file under..errrr...but the 'Heaven and Hell' stuff..that Lakland hes using is taken from the specs of the old P used from Black Sabbath to Master of reality. Ive noticed a few things in the 'modern' age....Not to many guitar solos and not many 3 pieces...I reckon with modern tones a 3 piece wouldnt stand up,and theres an awful lot of reliance on boxes and digi stuff to make up for lack of technique or just plain crap amplification..I used to diss the old duffers with only 20 frets,but they had a point and they had a tone that worked....I learnt that the hard way,and the tone still works..its still on records now.[/quote]Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basszilla Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 I personally love p bass tone. It most certainly without a doubt has it's place in rock/metal. You can't get [i]that[/i] tone anywhere else. Nothing wrong with any bass in any musical context really imo. It's the player that makes [i]most[/i] of the difference. It's musical expression, not the instrument it's played on ultimately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velvetkevorkian Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 Let's face it, 95% of the time in metal you can't hear any bass worth a toss anyway- and that goes doubly for Metallica (and all their bassists) IMHO. I like a lot of Metallica's music, but have never found anything inspiring about any of their bassists, or bass playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGH Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 [quote name='velvetkevorkian' post='363908' date='Dec 26 2008, 09:41 PM']Let's face it, 95% of the time in metal you can't hear any bass worth a toss anyway- and that goes doubly for Metallica (and all their bassists) IMHO. I like a lot of Metallica's music, but have never found anything inspiring about any of their bassists, or bass playing.[/quote] Thats because,most Bassplayers....read Bassplayers.....not Bassists.....cant escape the holy riff,without weakening the overall sound. Most bands have no idea about dynamics,or even tuning.....or in sound.. I.e what sounds great in a bedroom dont sound that hot in a room,and sounds utter kak live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budget bassist Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 [quote name='velvetkevorkian' post='363908' date='Dec 26 2008, 09:41 PM']Let's face it, 95% of the time in metal you can't hear any bass worth a toss anyway- and that goes doubly for Metallica (and all their bassists) IMHO. I like a lot of Metallica's music, but have never found anything inspiring about any of their bassists, or bass playing.[/quote] Really? Because rob's playing really jumped out at me in their latest album, as with Cliff's in most of their early stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velvetkevorkian Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 Well I haven't heard the latest album yet so can't comment there, but in terms of the early stuff I only notice the bass when he's playing with massive distortion and wah (IE there's supposed to be a bass solo in Orion, but I don't hear any notes, just a whooshing in the background?). Even Anasthesia (which I always think of (unconsciously) as Euthanasia ) I find fairly unremarkable today- sure its fast, but there's nothing particularly interesting to me- and that's coming from a guy who likes shredding, both on guitar and bass. As ever, your mileage may vary, and I'm happy for all the people Metallica's bassists have inspired, but for me, the most inspiring thing I've hear remains S&M which I think is outstanding. Maybe it was something special back in the early 80s, but today he (and they) have been surpassed by plenty of other bands and players- I'll spare you a list of bassists I think everyone should hear* but there are plenty of exciting players raising the bar for everyone. *although I'd be more than happy to if you want Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velvetkevorkian Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 [quote name='ARGH' post='363920' date='Dec 26 2008, 09:58 PM']Thats because,most Bassplayers....read Bassplayers.....not Bassists.....cant escape the holy riff,without weakening the overall sound. Most bands have no idea about dynamics,or even tuning.....or in sound.. I.e what sounds great in a bedroom dont sound that hot in a room,and sounds utter kak live.[/quote] This is true, but I don't hear a lot going on in Metallica's bass parts? Incidentally, going back to what you said about 3 pieces, I've been thinking a modern prog metal power trio would kick ass- think Rush mixed with Symphony X mixed with Meshuggah. Especially with extended range instruments, blur the boundaries a bit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGH Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 Go on...list Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 (edited) [quote name='velvetkevorkian' post='363957' date='Dec 26 2008, 11:13 PM']Well I haven't heard the latest album yet so can't comment there, but in terms of the early stuff I only notice the bass when he's playing with massive distortion and wah (IE there's supposed to be a bass solo in Orion, but I don't hear any notes, just a whooshing in the background?). Even Anasthesia (which I always think of (unconsciously) as Euthanasia ) I find fairly unremarkable today- sure its fast, but there's nothing particularly interesting to me- and that's coming from a guy who likes shredding, both on guitar and bass. As ever, your mileage may vary, and I'm happy for all the people Metallica's bassists have inspired, but for me, the most inspiring thing I've hear remains S&M which I think is outstanding. Maybe it was something special back in the early 80s, but today he (and they) have been surpassed by plenty of other bands and players- I'll spare you a list of bassists I think everyone should hear* but there are plenty of exciting players raising the bar for everyone. *although I'd be more than happy to if you want [/quote] +1 Although Cliff was an early inspiration on me, I still find it hard to actually hear his supposed "genius" within the songs themselves. He is only just about audible on the first 3 albums, and even in live performances back then he was still only just about audible, and from what I can make out he isn't exactly playing anything different to James at all. He is a legend but quite overrated when you look into it. Greg Christian of Testament could've easily given Cliff a run for his money back in the mid 80's mind you. S&M is Epic. Edited December 26, 2008 by Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGH Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 You always forget the Germans..even the Euro scene,when discussing the merits of Thrash...and musicality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 [quote name='ARGH' post='363980' date='Dec 26 2008, 11:40 PM']You always forget the Germans..even the Euro scene,when discussing the merits of Thrash...and musicality.[/quote] Kreator? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velvetkevorkian Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 [quote name='ARGH' post='363961' date='Dec 26 2008, 11:20 PM']Go on...list[/quote] Sean Malone of Cynic. The dude from Atheist whose name I can't recall. Steve DiGiorgio on a whole bunch of stuff, I recommend The Fragile Art Of Existence by Control Denied (Chuck Schuldiner post-Death for anyone who cares). Michael Mendez (or is it Lopez? can never remember) from Opeth. Whoever played on the Spiral Architect album (A Sceptic's Universe). Those are the only players I can think of just now that I can recommend as bassists worth listening to in their own right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 [quote name='velvetkevorkian' post='363986' date='Dec 26 2008, 11:44 PM']The dude from Atheist whose name I can't recall.[/quote] Tony choy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGH Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 [quote name='Josh' post='363983' date='Dec 26 2008, 11:41 PM']Kreator?[/quote] you put a question mark on that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGH Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 [quote name='Josh' post='363988' date='Dec 26 2008, 11:47 PM']Tony choy?[/quote] Roger Patterson.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 [quote name='ARGH' post='363993' date='Dec 26 2008, 11:52 PM']you put a question mark on that[/quote] I know. I've only heard a few trimmings of their stuff and can barely remember someone saying they were German. And IIRCC they were brutally thrashy. To even think about comparing them to the SF Thrash Movement is a bit of a waste of time since The German scene was much more technical and more leaning towards Death Metal from the get go, in fact they made the American movment of Thrash look quite tame, Metallica being the lightest in terms of Thrash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGH Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 (edited) Look,you lot are making me feel old here...... If you want to hear Good Bass on Thrash.....try 'Persecution Mania' lp by Sodom or pretty much anything by Coroner. [url="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=gQo3oE5GiBU"]http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=gQo3oE5GiBU[/url] [url="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=-3G9dQdUtv4&feature=related"]http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=-3G9dQdUtv4&...feature=related[/url] Edited December 27, 2008 by ARGH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budget bassist Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 [quote name='Josh' post='363970' date='Dec 26 2008, 11:28 PM']+1 Although Cliff was an early inspiration on me, I still find it hard to actually hear his supposed "genius" within the songs themselves. He is only just about audible on the first 3 albums, and even in live performances back then he was still only just about audible, and from what I can make out he isn't exactly playing anything different to James at all. He is a legend but quite overrated when you look into it. Greg Christian of Testament could've easily given Cliff a run for his money back in the mid 80's mind you. S&M is Epic.[/quote] Have a listen to call of ktulu, the bass on that is really cool. Though i do agree about testament's bassist, he's awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velvetkevorkian Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 Whoops, thats what I was thinking of when I was talking about whooshing noises, not Orion- for a solo, he's a bit buried by the guitars, although I'm hearing more tonight than I have before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 [quote name='ARGH' post='364001' date='Dec 26 2008, 11:59 PM']Look,you lot are making me feel old here...... If you want to hear Good Bass on Thrash.....try 'Persecution Mania' by Sodom or pretty much anything by Coroner. [url="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=gQo3oE5GiBU"]http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=gQo3oE5GiBU[/url] [url="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=-3G9dQdUtv4&feature=related"]http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=-3G9dQdUtv4&...feature=related[/url][/quote] You are an old bastard though aren't you . That is pretty good, it's sounds like what Slayer were trying to do but much better. Still, IMHO Testament were/still are the best American Thrash band. Also, have any other Thrash fans seen Get Thrashed yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budget bassist Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 [quote name='velvetkevorkian' post='364010' date='Dec 27 2008, 12:10 AM']Whoops, thats what I was thinking of when I was talking about whooshing noises, not Orion- for a solo, he's a bit buried by the guitars, although I'm hearing more tonight than I have before.[/quote] Ah, he is a bit buried in that, but if you listen for it, there's some great basslines. As for orion, i do think that's one of his better tracks, simple, but very good, and the bass really sticks out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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