Metallica, Rob Truheeo...

[Josh]

[quote name='budget bassist' post='364002' date='Dec 27 2008, 12:05 AM']Have a listen to call of ktulu, the bass on that is really cool.

Though i do agree about testament's bassist, he's awesome.[/quote]

I have many times man, I've been a die hard Metallica for 7 years at least, IMO Jason did it justice on S&M, whereas previously mentioned, his tone is barely audible on RTL sometimes, and trying make out what he's actually playing through all of his distortion is quite a task, and TCOK is exactly a favourite of mine so it's gets a listen every now and again.

Testament were also lucky to have Steve Digiorgio record 2 albums with them as well.

[johnnylager]

[quote name='Josh' post='363970' date='Dec 26 2008, 11:28 PM']...and even in live performances back then he was still only just about audible...[/quote]
Are you on drugs? I saw them on just about every date on the UK MoP tour and I can assure you this was not the case.

[quote name='Josh' post='363970' date='Dec 26 2008, 11:28 PM']Greg Christian of Testament could've easily given Cliff a run for his money back in the mid 80's mind you.[/quote]
Fair comment here though.

Edited December 27, 2008 by johnnylager

[Protium]

[quote name='ARGH' post='363692' date='Dec 26 2008, 02:13 PM']NO...Warwick have an endorsement deal running a mile wide,everyone likes free gear and they are hurling it at players,those guys are using Fenders on records,I see the youngsters click clicking tonally and calling it heavy,it sounds sh*t onstage,and it sounds crap on record...Ryan CAN play,and can play mean,but theres no darkness there,it isnt Heavy,its the post-Fieldy sound,it moves no-one,and yeah,the BASS has to be heard above downtuned guitars,but if Butler can cut through,AND still write lines that stand out without having to resort to boxes to fix in the mix,then theres summat very wrong...thats why the big ol'Fenders are still being used in the studio,they dont cause probs.

Theres a lot more to metal tone than a Jappo name brand line6 DI'd into a mates studio......[/quote]

Go listen to L.D.50 and then tell us Ryan's playing a P-bass

Since Sabbath (allegedly the industry standard of metal? ) also take into account the change in GUITAR tone- i.e. it was a hell of a lot easier for the bass to cut through in that era.

[4000]

[quote name='Josh' post='363676' date='Dec 26 2008, 01:50 PM']Indeed.

[/quote]

That's really interesting. I think you've just done a great job of highlighting the fact that there are no such things as good and bad tones, and that it all comes down to personal preference, because I think that Spector tone is nothing like what I'd describe as a good tone, even in the context of the music. I much prefer the earlier P sound. Also interesting because I wouldn't mind another Spector at some stage and have been trawling the net trying to find tones I like from them, so far without success. I live in hope though. Any examples would be appreciated.

[Josh]

[quote name='4000' post='364169' date='Dec 27 2008, 02:07 PM']That's really interesting. I think you've just done a great job of highlighting the fact that there are no such things as good and bad tones, and that it all comes down to personal preference, because I think that Spector tone is nothing like what I'd describe as a good tone, even in the context of the music. I much prefer the earlier P sound. Also interesting because I wouldn't mind another Spector at some stage and have been trawling the net trying to find tones I like from them, so far without success. I live in hope though. Any examples would be appreciated.[/quote]

I'd agree with you that that video is not the best example of a Spector being put to good use. I'm not a fan of his playing nor of Cannibal Corpses music, just merely answering a prior question. As you just said yourself, "It all comes down to personal preference", sor eally I could indeed give you plenty more examples of what I think IS a good example of THEE Spector tone. You've shown in other threads that your not one for a Hi-Fi Zingy sounding Jazz like tone whereas I am. Spectors can do that tone, and so really the examples I could show you wouldn't exactly help change your mind. Try asking Cetera though, he will have a whole catalogue of examples of Spectors in action.

[Josh]

[quote name='Protium' post='364123' date='Dec 27 2008, 12:13 PM']Go listen to L.D.50 and then tell us Ryan's playing a P-bass

Since Sabbath (allegedly the industry standard of metal? ) also take into account the change in GUITAR tone- i.e. it was a hell of a lot easier for the bass to cut through in that era.[/quote]

And if anything, Ryans tone on L.D. 50 is very dark compared to the later releases.

I guess Argh is saying that nowadays it's easy to look back and think it was easy to cut through, whereas back then it was more of an ordeal. Yet I don't actually recall saying that more distorion = More Metal. I'm not a fan of Black Sabbath and have always found their earlier stuff weak as in terms of modern day Metal, but I guess it's a case of "You weren't there so your never going to understand Kid".

[ARGH]

[quote name='Josh' post='364266' date='Dec 27 2008, 04:35 PM']And if anything, Ryans tone on L.D. 50 is very dark compared to the later releases.

I guess Argh is saying that nowadays it's easy to look back and think it was easy to cut through, whereas back then it was more of an ordeal. Yet I don't actually recall saying that more distorion = More Metal. I'm not a fan of Black Sabbath and have always found their earlier stuff weak as in terms of modern day Metal, but I guess it's a case of "You weren't there so your never going to understand Kid".[/quote]
No,its a simple case of you have no idea,but you can understand....the 1st 3 notes of 'Black Sabbath',the intro to 'Under the Sun',the pulse of 'Heaven and Hell'..the Main riff of 'Mob Rules'.....If you cant hear the sheer thunder and horror then you stand no chance if someone plays you any Possessed or Autopsy..or Sodom lps.Its was never easy,the equipment was harder to work with,and the communication was different between groups of players..its why/how a band sounds so different from one and another,now its just clones...you can get the equipment off the peg,turn it up,and in a bedroom its sounds awesome,but everyone ends up sounding the same....thats why theres nothing jaw dropping anymore....everythings route 1. The wonder of the internet has caused the death of working it out for yourself.....I recall Max Cavelera's story of having a tape with Hellhammer's Apocalyptic Raids on one side and Hear Nothing...by Discharge on the other..both bands looked totally different,but to Max they were the same thing......THEY were the heaviest things Max could find,if he wanted to go heavier,he'd have to find a way to do it his own self.

I admire the 'Nu' lot....But theres nothing aggressive,or bleak,or dark,or horrid about them......its commercial,droptuned,guitar based music for the 00s,that sells but dosent scare. Scott Ian hit the nail on the head by saying 10 years back that "This is the first generation that WONT push the boundaries of extremity in music"

Studios didnt have a clue how to record this stuff in the ages gone by,thats why whole genres hung around with one producer and one sound,Flemming was good at guitar sounds,at Bass he stank....The best guys in extreme metal at the time was ,in the USA Casey McMackin,and Randy Burns..later on Scott Burns..and in Europe it was Harris Johns in Hansa studios.and in the early days Horst Muller (Caet studios)....In the UK no one had a clue,not until 89/90..maybe 92,did we start having decent studio sounds...DeathMetal had sounds from country to country

Basically bands were either stuck with what they had to deal with,or they had a fight...One thing began to kill music off though,sounds were coming not from Bands but equipment...Whole sounds....genre staples were based from a pedal,the technique to make a riff heavy,had started to die off,now anyone can get a guitar,tune it down and go 'UUUUURRRGGGHHH' and complain about their school/parents/girlfriend..its saturated,its got cold,and its got crap....bad bad bad.


Its going to have to go back to the start......and its going to have to take a really big set of balls to make anything new,thats why I think the next big thing isnt going to come from the west.

Edited December 27, 2008 by ARGH

[Protium]

[quote name='ARGH' post='364348' date='Dec 27 2008, 06:17 PM']No,its a simple case of you have no idea,but you can understand....the 1st 3 notes of 'Black Sabbath',the intro to 'Under the Sun',the pulse of 'Heaven and Hell'..the Main riff of 'Mob Rules'.....If you cant hear the sheer thunder and horror then you stand no chance if someone plays you any Possessed or Autopsy..or Sodom lps.Its was never easy,the equipment was harder to work with,and the communication was different between groups of players..its why/how a band sounds so different from one and another,now its just clones...you can get the equipment off the peg,turn it up,and in a bedroom its sounds awesome,[size=4][b]but everyone ends up sounding the same[/b][/size]....thats why theres nothing jaw dropping anymore....everythings route 1. The wonder of the internet has caused the death of working it out for yourself.....I recall Max Cavelera's story of having a tape with Hellhammer's Apocalyptic Raids on one side and Hear Nothing...by Discharge on the other..both bands looked totally different,but to Max they were the same thing......THEY were the heaviest things Max could find,if he wanted to go heavier,he'd have to find a way to do it his own self.

I admire the 'Nu' lot....But theres nothing aggressive,or bleak,or dark,or horrid about them......its commercial,droptuned,guitar based music for the 00s,that sells but dosent scare. Scott Ian hit the nail on the head by saying 10 years back that "This is the first generation that WONT push the boundaries of extremity in music"

Studios didnt have a clue how to record this stuff in the ages gone by,thats why whole genres hung around with one producer and one sound,Flemming was good at guitar sounds,at Bass he stank....The best guys in extreme metal at the time was ,in the USA Casey McMackin,and Randy Burns..later on Scott Burns..and in Europe it was Harris Johns in Hansa studios.and in the early days Horst Muller (Caet studios)....In the UK no one had a clue,not until 89/90..maybe 92,did we start having decent studio sounds...DeathMetal had sounds from country to country

Basically bands were either stuck with what they had to deal with,or they had a fight...One thing began to kill music off though,sounds were coming not from Bands but equipment...Whole sounds....genre staples were based from a pedal,the technique to make a riff heavy,had started to die off,now anyone can get a guitar,tune it down and go 'UUUUURRRGGGHHH' and complain about their school/parents/girlfriend..its saturated,its got cold,and its got crap....bad bad bad.


Its going to have to go back to the start......and its going to have to take a really big set of balls to make anything new,thats why I think the next big thing isnt going to come from the west.[/quote]

Everyone sounds the same yet you want MORE people to play P-basses?

[johnnylager]

ARGH - good call mate, like it.

[TheDarkReaver]

ARGH, you sounds like you want doooooooom.



I don't think you need that dark doomy sound in all metal though. Sometimes you want something with a bit of growl, like Pantera.

Edited December 27, 2008 by TheDarkReaver

[Faithless]

[quote name='Josh' post='364018' date='Dec 27 2008, 02:20 AM']I have many times man, I've been a die hard Metallica for 7 years at least, [b][i]IMO Jason did it justice on S&M, whereas previously mentioned, his tone is barely audible on RTL sometimes[/i][/b], and trying make out what he's actually playing through all of his distortion is quite a task, and TCOK is exactly a favourite of mine so it's gets a listen every now and again.

Testament were also lucky to have Steve Digiorgio record 2 albums with them as well.[/quote]

Did I misunderstand somethin'?

RTL- Ride The Lightning? Dude, it's was 1984, Cliff's, not Jason's era...

[Josh]

[quote name='Faithless' post='364455' date='Dec 27 2008, 09:00 PM']Did I misunderstand somethin'?

RTL- Ride The Lightning? Dude, it's was 1984, Cliff's, not Jason's era...[/quote]

Yeah you did .

I was referring to Jason's performance of TCOK on S&M.

I'm well aware man.

[4000]

[quote name='Josh' post='364261' date='Dec 27 2008, 04:29 PM']I'd agree with you that that video is not the best example of a Spector being put to good use. I'm not a fan of his playing nor of Cannibal Corpses music, just merely answering a prior question. As you just said yourself, "It all comes down to personal preference", sor eally I could indeed give you plenty more examples of what I think IS a good example of THEE Spector tone. You've shown in other threads that your not one for a Hi-Fi Zingy sounding Jazz like tone whereas I am. Spectors can do that tone, and so really the examples I could show you wouldn't exactly help change your mind. Try asking Cetera though, he will have a whole catalogue of examples of Spectors in action.[/quote]

Fair enough. Cetera?

BTW, it's not that I'm not a fan of hi-fi zingy tone, just not that hi-fi Jazz tone, which I'd describe as "wiry" rather than zingy. Zingy is fine, but I guess perceptions of "zing" will be different. I wouldn't describe Marcus Miller's sound as zingy, whereas others might. To me he's a mixture of thumpy and glassy. .

FWIW, when I bought my Spector (a euro 5) I played it in the shop through an Ashdown Electric Blue 1x15 combo and it sounded great; really ballsy & growly. However using it through my rig at the time (ABM500 and Aguilar GS112s x2) it sounded awful whatever I did, so I took it back. Now I've got rid of the cabs (although yet to replace them), I'd be interested to give Spector another chance. Not saying they'll be for me, but it's worth a try.

[ARGH]

[quote name='Protium' post='364404' date='Dec 27 2008, 07:23 PM']Everyone sounds the same yet you want MORE people to play P-basses? [/quote]
Glad you pointed that out...The riff rules..The METAL riff is king,Guitars come 1st..they just do,good bass or good playing...right now...does not....P's have more than one sound,P's are used on records.Because they work.

Considering we have had 4 pages of Thrash Bass discussion,some of it regarding good tone,and most of it essentially is a question of image (Rob T playing a P bass shock horror)...some of us dont know our History,and either cant tell who plays on what,or what is being used,and worse...some have not heard of Tutonic Thrash (a conveniance of the modern media in the low quality Thrash revival..)....or the origins of some very very key players. The growling tones of Geezer Butler,or Steve Cutler,or or or or etc...Even the 1st Death lp has a P on it. People throw about Steve D's name,but I bet nobodys actually GOT a Sadus lp,...

------------------------------------

I dont just want dooooom,I want the nasty,the dark,the black all back...its a tad Spinal Tap,but Im not scared by what I hear,and I get a little cynical when Melodic Death metal bands dont tip the hat to At The Gates,Some kids think Dimmu Borgir began Black metal,and when no-one can hear the Discharge riffs and the Mercyful fate melody in Thrash (Fade to black IS a rewrite of Melissa)......A big history lesson is needed,and when its over,clear the decks and start again....If you want to hear a good tune played by teenagers get Bathory's 1st lp,Get 'In the sign of Evil' by Sodom,'Morbid Tales' by Celtic Frost.

There alot of playing people have forgotten about,and its never written about in Kerrrang or MH or Terrorizer or Zero tolerance,because Noone's paying the journo's to write about it.....its not just about ripping your denim jacket,or dying your hair,its about the sheer feeling of the music you are creating as a living breathing creature,bottom line all the crossover of styles has weakend Metal into a safe,MTV SUb goth,EMO,melodic mass of yuk and eyeliner. I remember churches burning,riots,f***ing madness....the actions were sad as f***,but god the music was good and at least those players ment it!!!!


To repeat myself....Its a little bit more than plugging japcrap into a digi plastic amp modeling system,and turning a few knobs,its a little bit more than simple downtuning and RAAAAAAGGGHHHing into a mic,its a hell of a lot more than hoodies and the dancing...and then being picked up by mum in the Volvo.

It HAS always been about the riff,the parent offending,tool of evil...THE RIFF. And if you cant dig that flat 5th and understand all its spawned....then you are utterly lost...all the gear in the world cant save you,no matter how expensive it is....

Its why Slayer still kill live,even though they have not made a decent lp since 91.

Edited December 27, 2008 by ARGH

[velvetkevorkian]

Nothing in there to take issue with. Well said.

[Faithless]

Goddamnit, it was just a tiny thread about Troohilah'z basses, and, what do we have now...


Ok, let it be then,
Cheers,
Faith.

[budget bassist]

[quote name='TheDarkReaver' post='364432' date='Dec 27 2008, 08:16 PM']ARGH, you sounds like you want doooooooom.



I don't think you need that dark doomy sound in all metal though. Sometimes you want something with a bit of growl, like Pantera.[/quote]
Glad to know i'm not the only the only one that like a good solid bassy sound rather than a clicky trebly crappy sound.

Edited December 28, 2008 by budget bassist

[ARGH]

Go and buy 'Mental Funeral' by Autopsy.

Thats Horrid beauty...so much influence has come off that record...more so than Reign in Blood.

[agoulding]

how did this go from "wow thats a nice bass" to "no youre wrong"


strange.


oh and mental autopsy f*ckin rules. pure grit.

Edited December 28, 2008 by agoulding