krispn Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Al Krow said: That makes sense. The shape of the NE2 pup is taller (hence stacked) vs a a broader flatter 1005J pup. But glad they are managing to justify the £3k price premium somehow then - lol! You seen the RRP of the NE2 lately? It's ridiculous! Or the classic Single Coil v Soap Bar shape (or candy bar as some manufacturers call them)! I like look of the 30th. Anniversary Attitude Edited January 29, 2021 by krispn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted January 29, 2021 Author Share Posted January 29, 2021 (edited) 49 minutes ago, Reggaebass said: There’s a Yamaha bb800 on gumtree , I’ve never seen one of those before, it’s a bit like a Yamaha P bass That's exactly right! I think the BB800 was in fact one of the very earliest BB models around 1978 to 1981. I'm guessing Yamaha subsequently swapped to adopted their own iconic designs following threats of litigation from Fender. Edited January 29, 2021 by Al Krow Corrected (see post below) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krispn Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 Only the Fender headstock design is protected so body shape wouldn’t have been the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted January 29, 2021 Author Share Posted January 29, 2021 4 minutes ago, krispn said: Only the Fender headstock design is protected so body shape wouldn’t have been the issue. Interesting point. But when was that established by the Courts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 1977 when the BB range launched. They had a direct copy of a P bass called a PB400 in previous years... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuzzie Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 The BB800 body isn’t remotely like the Fender P anyway from the one on sale unless the photos are all squished Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuzzie Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, LukeFRC said: 1977 when the BB range launched. They had a direct copy of a P bass called a PB400 in previous years... BigBottoms all over those - the PB and the Attitude LTD are about as close as they get to a Fender shape Edited January 29, 2021 by Cuzzie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 5 minutes ago, Cuzzie said: BigBottoms all over those - the PB and the Attitude LTD are about as close as they get to a Fender shape well they were closer the year before.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuzzie Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 1 minute ago, LukeFRC said: well they were closer the year before.... I think the objection was probably more to turdburst as a colour rather than the shape, and rightly so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 2 minutes ago, Cuzzie said: I think the objection was probably more to turdburst as a colour rather than the shape, and rightly so that's a vintage mid 70's turdburst. stick that on a Fender and it would be worth big bucks now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted January 29, 2021 Author Share Posted January 29, 2021 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Al Krow said: That's exactly right! I think the BB800 was in fact one of the very earliest BB models around 1978 to 1981. I'm guessing Yamaha subsequently swapped to adopted their own iconic designs following threats of litigation from Fender. Yeah apologies - I expressed that poorly / inaccurately earlier. What I should have said is as above. The BB range was Yamaha's iconic design to take it away from potential Fender litigation. Krispn's headstock point is very valid, but I think it was only established relatively recently. Hence the reason, I believe, for Sandberg altering their headstock design (personally I prefer the older Fender headstock on my California TM4 Mk2, but that's me). Back in the 70s / 80s that point wouldn't yet have been established in law / tested by the Courts so Fender would have been able to wheel out their legal team to threaten design-infringement law suits with much greater effect. Have to say I'm actually very sympathetic to Fender on this - I think blatant copying of designs is a form of IP theft and at a minimum there should be some royalty payment. Edited January 29, 2021 by Al Krow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krispn Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 (edited) The whole lawsuit era modelswas from the late 70’s to the mid 80’s I think. I’d need to go back and dig deeper for exact dates and that goes for many of the brands coming out of Asia by the like of Ibanez etc. Edited January 29, 2021 by krispn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted January 29, 2021 Author Share Posted January 29, 2021 5 minutes ago, krispn said: The whole lawsuit era modelswas from the late 70’s to the mid 80’s I think. I’d need to go back and dig deeper for exact dates and that goes for many of the brands coming out of Asia by the like of Ibanez etc. That would be good thanks. I'm actually quite interested to find out (apologies if that is a bit nerdy!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 I think that sometime around 1977 it seems to show Yamaha both setting themselves up for more export, and go for the high end with instruments like the BB1200. By the late 70's under the Yamaha brand as far as I can see it's all their own designs rather than copies of Fender or Gibson... I think the headstock protection in US domestic markets and the fabled lawsuit over a Gibson scroll was a wee bit later - after Yamaha had started doing their own thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 also if the aim is to avoid litigation I do not think you would ever end up with a BB1200 as your flagship model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuzzie Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 17 minutes ago, LukeFRC said: that's a vintage mid 70's turdburst. stick that on a Fender and it would be worth big bucks now! I like Big Bucks and I cannot lie.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krispn Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Al Krow said: That would be good thanks. I'm actually quite interested to find out (apologies if that is a bit nerdy!) There’s loads of resources online if you wish to dig deeper. I’ll not be doing your leg work on this one. If you can find Indonesian birth rates and deaths rates lawsuit era basses should be pretty straightforward 😀 Edited January 29, 2021 by krispn 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted January 29, 2021 Author Share Posted January 29, 2021 4 minutes ago, krispn said: There’s loads of resources online if you wish to dig deeper. I’ll not be doing your leg work on this one. If you can find Indonesian birth rates and deaths rates lawsuit era basses should be pretty straightforward 😀 Well it was your headstock point, but fair enough... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krispn Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 Well if you’re quite interested 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted January 29, 2021 Author Share Posted January 29, 2021 15 minutes ago, krispn said: Well if you’re quite interested 😉 Yeah - fair do's, over to me on this one. Interesting you picked up on the Indonesian birth rate point. I'm usually no defender and very anti the extremism that is carried out in the name of that particular faith; but I had to pick-up / push back on the comment made in the other thread because it was just so...well, bigoted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MM Stingray 62 Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 Yes I think you’re right weren’t some of the earlier Ibanez basses nicknamed lawsuit basses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krispn Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Al Krow said: Yeah - fair do's, over to me on this one. Interesting you picked up on the Indonesian birth rate point. I'm usually no defender and very anti the extremism that is carried out in the name of that particular faith; but I had to pick-up / push back on the comment made in the other thread because it was just so...well, bigoted! Yeah I remember someone making some generic “one-eyed Indonesian” workers comment a while back too which caused some upset among some folks. **I've been informed that the comment was supposed to be making the exact opposite point! i.e. anti-bigotry about Indonesian workers, who are clearly very capable. So let the record reflect that! Edited January 29, 2021 by krispn News just in 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyTravis Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 2 minutes ago, krispn said: Yeah I remember someone making some generic “one-eyed Indonesian” workers comment a while back too which caused some upset among some folks. Ah yeah. That. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munurmunuh Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 It was quite nice leaving off reading that thread and deciding not to return to it.... *meaningful look* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyTravis Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 2 hours ago, krispn said: The whole lawsuit era modelswas from the late 70’s to the mid 80’s I think. I’d need to go back and dig deeper for exact dates and that goes for many of the brands coming out of Asia by the like of Ibanez etc. The only genuine “lawsuit” was Gibson vs Ibanez on a headstock copy. Possibly Tokai too on the fenders...but fender just had that factory make some guitars for them (I think I read somewhere) The “lawsuit era” is a bit of a misnomer really. And people shove it on listings to add some sort of magic... Copying tried and tested designs saved on expensive r&d I guess. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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