The Yamaha BB mega-thread

[mrtcat]

3 hours ago, Al Krow said:

@mrtcat congratulations mate, that's an awesome rig! 

I'll have to fess that I find it difficult other than through a close inspection of the pups to distinguish the BB424X and the BB1024X models, so you'll need to please spill the beans on which of the two models you have there?

It is indeed a 1024x. I bought it used from this very forum for under £500. It has pushed a selection of far more expensive basses down the pecking order and is my go to bass for live work. 

[Al Krow]

1 hour ago, mrtcat said:

It is indeed a 1024x. I bought it used from this very forum for under £500. It has pushed a selection of far more expensive basses down the pecking order and is my go to bass for live work. 

They really are that good, aren't they?!

I think @Muzz has had a similar experience with his BB which is on the verge of pushing a Sandberg out the door (just as mine did 18 months back!)

[johnny1982]

Can anybody explain what is the main difference between :

a) Yamaha BB2025 and BB2025x

b) Yamaha BB1025 and BB2025

Thanks☺️

[MDWagstaff]

15 minutes ago, johnny1982 said:

Can anybody explain what is the main difference between :

a) Yamaha BB2025 and BB2025x

b) Yamaha BB1025 and BB2025

Thanks☺️

The X series has a scratch plate 

[mrtcat]

13 minutes ago, johnny1982 said:

Can anybody explain what is the main difference between :

a) Yamaha BB2025 and BB2025x

b) Yamaha BB1025 and BB2025

Thanks☺️

a) 2025 has no scratchplate or chrome control cavity cover. Essentially the same bass other than that.

b) 1025 assembled in Indonesia 2025 assembled in Japan. Both use the same parts although I believe the 2025 body is subjected to the vibration treatment. 

[dannybuoy]

Heat and vibration treatment. They are supposed to have the same hardware but the pickups do have different part numbers if you try to order them as spares!

The body contouring is supposed too be subtly sleeker on the Japanese one but I haven't held them side by side to verify for myself. The neck definitely feels more luxurious though, with a rubbed oil finish and smoother edges around the fingerboard and headstock.

Edited December 30, 2019 by dannybuoy

[Cuzzie]

So......those purveyors of many Yammy’s often side by side do they feel/hear/see a noticeable difference for those that have had the IRA treatment?

[johnny1982]

35 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

So......those purveyors of many Yammy’s often side by side do they feel/hear/see a noticeable difference for those that have had the IRA treatment?

Interested in that myself too... Anyone tried an IRA bass 1 on 1against a non treated one?

 

Thanks for the answers guys🙏

[Reggaebass]

What exactly is an IRA bass 🙂

[dave_bass5]

IRA is sort of like road worn wood. Not the finish, but the wood itself. It's been treated so its settled already. 

I personally think its a gimmick, although i can see the logic behind it. I'd rather pay less and not have it. After all, you cant tell what its doing as there are no direct with or without models. 

[Al Krow]

19 minutes ago, johnny1982 said:

Interested in that myself too... Anyone tried an IRA bass 1 on 1against a non treated one?

 

Thanks for the answers guys🙏

The new series 3 P34 / P35s have the IRA treatment. It supposedly delivers a "played in" feel to the bass, which obviously will happen to a bass anyway once it's been played in. So the difference between a new P35 and an old BB, on that score, is likely to become marginal due to the old BB having been played in. 

Harry, who bought my P35, said it felt very played in and really well balanced etc. But it was 18 months old by the time he bought it. So how much was an accelerated effect of IRA and how much simply being played in (particularly by the guy who had it before me), I have no way of telling. 

I guess the parallel is with Sandberg aging of their basses. 

[Reggaebass]

1 minute ago, dave_bass5 said:

IRA is sort of like road worn wood. Not the finish, but the wood itself. It's been treated so its settled already. 

I personally think its a gimmick, although i can see the logic behind it. I'd rather pay less and not have it. After all, you cant tell what its doing as there are no direct with or without models. 

Thanks very much dave , I can’t say I’ve heard of that 👍

[Al Krow]

Just now, Reggaebass said:

Thanks very much dave , I can’t say I’ve heard of that 👍

I think it's a sonic treatment to relax the fibres of the wood. 

[Reggaebass]

Just now, Al Krow said:

I think it's a sonic treatment to relax the fibres of the wood. 

It sounds feasible, I suppose. 

[Cuzzie]

3 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

The new series 3 P34 / P35s have the IRA treatment. It supposedly delivers a "played in" feel to the bass, which obviously will happen to a bass anyway once it's been played in. So the difference between a new P35 and an old BB, on that score, is likely to become marginal due to the old BB having been played in. 

Harry, who bought my P35, said it felt very played in and really well balanced etc. But it was 18 months old by the time he bought it. So how much was an accelerated effect of IRA and how much simply being played in (particularly by the guy who had it before me), I have no way of telling. 

I guess the parallel is with Sandberg aging of their basses. 

The direct comparison would be 2 off the production line one with, one without so they are the same ‘age’

Parallel’s can be drawn with Sandberg but their process is slightly different and can stacked between various treatments they offer, and I am up to speed on them and how they all feel - was interested in Yammy’s take on it

[Cuzzie]

7 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

IRA is sort of like road worn wood. Not the finish, but the wood itself. It's been treated so its settled already. 

I personally think its a gimmick, although i can see the logic behind it. I'd rather pay less and not have it. After all, you cant tell what its doing as there are no direct with or without models. 

Do all basses have the sonic treatment then?

[dave_bass5]

7 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

Do all basses have the sonic treatment then?

Only the high end Yamahas, the Japanese ones i think, definitely  not the low end, but i would imagine after a couple of dozen gigs any bass will be in the same zone.  

From the Yamaha website

Any bass benefits from being "played in," a process in which the instrument matures and opens up as the stresses between the wood and finish, neck and fingerboard, and body and hardware are released, resulting in better sound and playability. 

Yamaha’s exclusive Initial Response Acceleration (IRA) technology releases those stresses by applying specific vibrations to the completed instruments as part of the crafting process and gives a "played in" bass from day one

Edited December 30, 2019 by dave_bass5

[Cuzzie]

Just now, dave_bass5 said:

Only the high end Yamahas, the Japanese ones i think, definitely  not the low end, but i would imagine after a couple of dozen gigs any bass will be in the same zone.  

Aside from-hardware  fit, finish, IRA - would a less than high end Yammy still be the same Wood, manufacture etc to allow a comparison or is it a case of the top shelf stuff is just that, and not available lower?

[dave_bass5]

1 minute ago, Cuzzie said:

Aside from-hardware  fit, finish, IRA - would a less than high end Yammy still be the same Wood, manufacture etc to allow a comparison or is it a case of the top shelf stuff is just that, and not available lower?

Difficult to say. I guess the closest to the P34/5  is the 734/5. Pretty close in most respects but they have different finishes, and I'm guessing that would contribute to the tone on each bass. 

[Reggaebass]

Being a carpenter/joiner/cabinet maker , I find this really interesting, a quick search found this graph , if I’ve read it right it seems to enhance the low mids and the highs .

[Al Krow]

4 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

Difficult to say. I guess the closest to the P34/5  is the 734/5. Pretty close in most respects but they have different finishes, and I'm guessing that would contribute to the tone on each bass. 

Yup agreed. They are pretty identical in terms of woods, pups etc. Obviously a MUCH bigger difference here is the fact that the P34/5 is purely passive and has VVT tone controls and 734A/5A is both passive and active and has quite different EQ options and a bigger body cavity to accommodate an active EQ. Given all of these, it's going to be hard to isolate the impact of the IRA treatment.

The better comparison would be the 1024/5 and 2024/5. Identical components as far as I can tell (I've read some minor differences in neck wood combinations). The 2024/5 are MIJ (vs Taiwan for the 1024/5) and have two treatments ARE (acoustic resonance enhancement) in addition to the IRA (initial response acceleration) we've been discussing, to give it a 'played in' and vintage feel and DB has mentioned he prefers the neck finish on the 2024/5. The price difference between the 1024/5 and 2024/5 was, however, eye watering. 

But you'll have already gathered from a few of the 1024/5 owners, we're finding that that the we've got a fantastic gigging bass!

[Cuzzie]

18 minutes ago, Reggaebass said:

Being a carpenter/joiner/cabinet maker , I find this really interesting, a quick search found this graph , if I’ve read it right it seems to enhance the low mids and the highs .

The main premise on any of this technology is the fact that being a living substance with a cellular structure that is susceptible to change, sonic resonance through the wood allows for ‘settling’ and re-alignment of the structuring and a maturation of the sound of the wood.

Most people do mention about things settling with age, older basses having been around for a while sounding different to new or when they were new. Moisture content is another thing as well which slowly affects the sound as it diminishes. Not to mention warp factor, hence humid climates are a nightmare for necks, tuning etc. Most good manufacturers have the wood stock drying  for a while before building.

Being a man of wood you will know far more than I, but to me it makes perfect sense that vibration, heat treatment (BTW in the case of Sandberg this was developed with the research department of the local university to test not just if it works but how best to do it) does make a difference to an instrument, no doubt. As ever people can judge whether or not the extra cost is worth it for them

Edited December 30, 2019 by Cuzzie

[dannybuoy]

IRA = vibration treatment

ARE = heat treatment

 

They no longer do ARE to the P34/P35 like they did to the 2024/2025. I expect it would make quite a difference to the wood, roasted maple necks are very popular these days.

Edited December 30, 2019 by dannybuoy

[Cuzzie]

5 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Yup agreed. They are pretty identical in terms of woods, pups etc. Obviously a MUCH bigger difference here is the fact that the P34/5 is purely passive and has VVT tone controls and 734A/5A is both passive and active and has quite different EQ options and a bigger body cavity to accommodate an active EQ. Given all of these, it's going to be hard to isolate the impact of the IRA treatment.

The better comparison would be the 1024/5 and 2024/5. Identical components as far as I can tell (I've read some minor differences in neck wood combinations). The 2024/5 are MIJ (vs Taiwan for the 1024/5) and have two treatments ARE (acoustic resonance enhancement) in addition to the IRA (initial response acceleration) we've been discussing, to give it a 'played in' and vintage feel and DB has mentioned he prefers the neck finish on the 2024/5. The price difference between the 1024/5 and 2024/5 was, however, eye watering. 

But you'll have already gathered from a few of the 1024/5 owners, we're finding that that the we've got a fantastic gigging bass!

So the call is for people who have owned similar aged 102 and 202 basses side by side to make a shout

[krispn]

I understand both processes were to replicate the vibration ageing of wood as if played for many many years and the drying of the woods as one would find in a vintage bass so ‘played in’ feel might be a slight misnomer - rolled edges on a neck would more easily create the ‘feel’ of an older well played bass. These processes treated the wood to ‘respond’ like an older ‘vintage’ pieces of wood. 
 

It’s interesting they stopped one of the treatments...🤔