Andyjr1515 Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 (edited) Hi Other titles I considered was -"Mick throws down the gauntlet" or "It's the last straw the breaks the camels back" or "Here's another fine mess you've gotten us into" The most ambitious project so far....and some. It's for our very own Mick (aka TheGreek) This one is still in conceptual stages in many ways and - with so many technical challenges ahead - going to take some time. And - always a possibility - feasibly might not work. The excitement and anticipation of starting this project has been building rapidly like the internal pressure of eating too many baked beans The plan at the moment is:[list] [*]Contact lens cross-sectional profile: [/list] [list] [*]Ultra-modern skewed profile [/list] [list] [*]Full length fretboard (ie nut to tailstock) [*]Headless tuning mechanism (actual head / no head / part head still in design) [*]Hidden magnetic pickup [*]Possibly piezo in addition [*]Hidden controls [*]Natural, white wood throughout [/list] There - that's it. Pressure released. As they say..."better out than in" Edited July 22, 2017 by Andyjr1515 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted March 25, 2017 Author Share Posted March 25, 2017 Oh...and here's the body wood for it: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreek Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 So here we go again...the bass is still in the conceptual stage and I'm already like a kid on Xmas Eve. We're going for the most minimal look ever - 22nd Century design if you will - with influences from ACG/ Ritter/ Marleaux all with Andy's magical spin. I can't wait... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabba_the_gut Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 Be interested in watching this and what headless system / approach you use - I bought a headless Moses neck for a project I'm planning soon. That cross section may be a challenge!! Good luck!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreek Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 (edited) I believe in Andy Edited March 25, 2017 by TheGreek 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aDx Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 gotta love Mick! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreek Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 [quote name='aDx' timestamp='1490470993' post='3265406'] gotta love Mick! lol [/quote] Please tell Linda Lusardi... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aDx Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 [quote name='TheGreek' timestamp='1490471283' post='3265412'] Please tell Linda Lusardi... [/quote] lol she is probably old and wrinkly now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastav Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 now [i]that[/i] is quite the spec. lovely flame on that maple aswell, are you going to add some accent veneers or is it gonna be all maple/light woods? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted March 26, 2017 Author Share Posted March 26, 2017 (edited) [quote name='Bastav' timestamp='1490533007' post='3265724'] now [i]that[/i] is quite the spec. lovely flame on that maple aswell, are you going to add some accent veneers or is it gonna be all maple/light woods? [/quote] The neck will be 5 piece rock maple with some thin accent lines either side of the central maple splice - other than that it will be all as white as we can make it, although clearly it will darken a touch when the finishing is on. That body wood is actually sycamore (related to maple), cut down, cut up and seasoned by a local contact and professional instrument maker. I was pleased to get hold of it because the offset with the bookmatch means that the blanks need to be significantly longer than those normally available. There's a dark spot you can just see that is a quirk in the grain - it is impossible to know until it's carved whether that will get bigger, stay the same or disappear. But, well...that's wood for you... Edited March 26, 2017 by Andyjr1515 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daz39 Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 Exciting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted March 26, 2017 Author Share Posted March 26, 2017 I will post the progress of the design as it progresses. There are and will be lots of messaging between Mick and me in the background as we develop or abandon thoughts and ideas. I will probably have to build a number of prototype rigs too to try things out. So you will see the design and development process, warts and all. Remember two things:[list] [*]The design and solutions will undoubtedly change during the process [*]Like all of my builds, I will simply say what I have done and why. If you are thinking of building stuff yourself, NEVER assume that I know what I am doing - but DO feel free to learn by my mistakes.... [/list] So, where would I usually start? Geometry and physics. A bass guitar is a series of compromises held together by determination and hope. Pretty much everything impacts on everything - usually making what you were trying to do impossible for practical or practicability reasons. For me, I start with the tailstock arrangement and thus the bridge position , because that will determine how far away the nut ends up being away from your grasp. The further forward the bridge, the longer the neck will be. Sounds obvious but you can easily and quickly end up with a bass that is physically unplayable. The other thing that fundamentally affects the apparent neck length is the balance on the strap. This early in the process you [i]have to [/i]have a decent idea how this is going to hang. If it swings to the player's right (assuming a RH bass), then neck will feel shorter. If it swings to the left, it can become unplayable because you simply can't reach the end of the neck. The above is where the challenges of this build start biting. We are going for a headless mechanism, fitted to the back and hidden from the front view. There is going to be some hacksaw work on Mick's donated tuner assembly, but this is where it will go: Note that due to the forward skew of the upper part of the tail, the tuner mechanism is a few cm further forward than it normally would be. Also this is going to be fitted at the back. So to get to the bridge with any decent string angles, there is going to be quite a distance for the angled strings to go to get to the top. This pushes the bridge even further forward, as you can see in the top (full-size) sketch below: I've written '11cm minimum' here but in reality, to hide the tuners, this is going to be at least 13cm from the centre-line which is itself 1.5" further forward than I would normally aim for. All things being equal, that would make this feel like a 35.5" scale bass!! But, then there's the hang. Here's my Bubinga fretless in comparison, with the bridge in the same position: Playing the Bubinga is pretty much me at full stretch so anything forward of this is a concern. And that great lump of material at the back of the design is going to throw it further to the left. But look where the horn meets the neck - a strap button (probably at the back) here would be much further forward than my bubinga. This would swing the bass back to the right. So...might be OK Another consequence of the forward bridge is the hidden magnetic pickup. Remember that the body will be slim and diminishing. The forward bridge position throws the pickup towards the narrowest and thinnest point: At the moment in that proposal, the pickup is deeper than the body... So that's what [i]I've[/i] been doing this Sunday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastav Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 (edited) Another thing to think about if you want even more right-swing is positioning the bottom strap button further up towards the neck. Edited March 26, 2017 by Bastav Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted March 26, 2017 Author Share Posted March 26, 2017 [quote name='Bastav' timestamp='1490543603' post='3265832'] Another thing to think about if you want even more right-swing is positioning the bottom strap button further up towards the neck. [/quote] Yes indeed, Bastav. On my bubinga you can probably see that I had also done that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted March 26, 2017 Author Share Posted March 26, 2017 [quote name='Andyjr1515' timestamp='1490543829' post='3265838'] Yes indeed, Bastav. On my bubinga you can probably see that I had also done that [/quote] This is one area where the skew helps - the effect will be more marked on this design... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eude Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 Wow, you're not making life easy for yourself! Really excited to see this one develop! Cheers, Eude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 Oooo - this is going to be fun. I love these threads! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samhay Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 This looks to be interesting. >Hidden magnetic pickup >At the moment in that proposal, the pickup is deeper than the body... Are you planning on burying that pickup in/under the fingerboard, or have you given up on the hidden aspect? In either case, seeing as you are pushing the boat out, why not wind your own pickup to fit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted March 27, 2017 Author Share Posted March 27, 2017 (edited) [quote name='samhay' timestamp='1490609209' post='3266299'] This looks to be interesting. >Hidden magnetic pickup >At the moment in that proposal, the pickup is deeper than the body... Are you planning on burying that pickup in/under the fingerboard, or have you given up on the hidden aspect? In either case, seeing as you are pushing the boat out, why not wind your own pickup to fit? [/quote] There are shallower pickups around than the one that Mick sent me (a nice MEC) so I'm sure I can sort an alternative if needs be. Having said that, my concept may well suck anyway, in which case a custom-wound may be the answer whatever. It's going to be a full length fretboard, so my plan was to fit the pickup from the back and set some iron slugs into the fretboard, either blind or exposed and sanded flush: The scale of this above is, of course wrong, with a standard J pickup being much wider than the fretboard. With a custom wind it would be possible to raise the fixed slugs into a slot in the back of the fretboard... I've been doing some experiments, winding my bubinga pickup right down into the body and then laying a piece of iron across the poles to see what it does to the volume and tone, and also winding out the pole pieces ridiculously high. The former works better than the latter but there's lots more experiments to do.... Edited March 27, 2017 by Andyjr1515 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted March 27, 2017 Author Share Posted March 27, 2017 While Mick has been looking at options for the headstock (we are both trying to avoid the abrupt stop of a conventional headless headstock which would look completely wrong on this shape), I have been trying to confirm the fixing and string routing at the other end. With a full length fretboard, I think we are in the realms of an acoustic-style bone saddle. Imagine the bridge in this picture was the fretboard, continuing forwards and backwards: Something like that. The added benefit is that is makes is a doddle to fit a conventional acoustic-style piezo element under the saddle Working on the fact that lower E strings don't really like bending more than 30 degrees, this fully dimensioned drawing probably confirms the closest I can get the saddle to the tail with the tuner mechanism fully hidden from the front view: Mechanically, I think this would work, although the tuner string retainer adjustment screws will need to be shortened to prevent the ball ends just pulling out under initial tensioning (due to the angled string pull) So far, so good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreek Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 (edited) Am I being too demanding by asking for something like this??? Or has Andy 's previous work left me believing he can do anything.... Maybe he should have titled this thread "Great Expectations".. Edited March 28, 2017 by TheGreek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreek Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 (edited) Re: The headstock end and securing the "ball-less" end of the strings I found photos of a Bogart Blackstone (well Stu Clayton posted pics of his in the For sale thread) which suggests that Andy's plan should work. Imagine this with grub screws (Andy's proposal) instead of tuners.: What's that thing where two people/nature invent the same solution to a single problem??? http://www.ebay.de/itm/SKC-Bogart-Blackstone-5-/382002414720 Edited March 28, 2017 by TheGreek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul S Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 Convergence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aDx Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 [quote name='TheGreek' timestamp='1490717142' post='3267347'] Re: The headstock end and securing the "ball-less" end of the strings I found photos of a Bogart Blackstone (well Stu Clayton posted pics of his in the For sale thread) which suggests that Andy's plan should work. Imagine this with grub screws (Andy's proposal) instead of tuners.: What's that thing where two people/nature invent the same solution to a single problem??? [url="http://www.ebay.de/itm/SKC-Bogart-Blackstone-5-/382002414720"]http://www.ebay.de/i...5-/382002414720[/url] [/quote] Bear in mind that the tuner mechanism on that Bogart will make it easier to change a string in a hurry than grub screws... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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