thepurpleblob Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1500642705' post='3339328'] I have one of those tonight. I'll have fun and make the best of it, but I need the money for bills, every cent of it. Blue [/quote] Yeh - I get that. My day job is in IT and (whether I like it or not) I'm a much better and more productive IT geek than I am a bass player. So, it's become a matter of personal "policy" that music will never become an income stream that I need to rely on. That's not always been the case for other people in bands I have played in and then "I don't want to do that gig" or "I'd rather go to a car show that weekend" makes me the bad guy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1500633494' post='3339229'] ...or enthusiastic..? I did the lights and trucking for the band our eldest was in for several years; never got (nor asked for...) a penny. Whilst I was fit enough, I loved it; it took my mind well away from my IT work, and they were great lads. Happy daze..! [/quote] The odd weekend maybe but five our six nights a week for less than minimum wage as a full time job? I'm sticking with daft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1500651770' post='3339417'] The odd weekend maybe but five our six nights a week for less than minimum wage as a full time job? I'm sticking with daft [/quote] Yes, [i]very [/i]odd week-ends indeed. I couldn't have stood the pace for six nights a week; they were a [i]very [/i]strenuous bunch..! One would be daft to do it for [i]any [/i]wage, I'd say..! Judge for yourself... http://youtu.be/_MWeuypvClc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Steve Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 [quote name='thepurpleblob' timestamp='1500647029' post='3339368'] Yeh - I get that. My day job is in IT and (whether I like it or not) I'm a much better and more productive IT geek than I am a bass player. So, it's become a matter of personal "policy" that music will never become an income stream that I need to rely on. That's not always been the case for other people in bands I have played in and then "I don't want to do that gig" or "I'd rather go to a car show that weekend" makes me the bad guy... [/quote] I see it as a three way split. 1. Those that have to do it for money so want to play every paying gig 2. Those that do it for fun but playing gigs is more fun than not playing gigs so are happy to commit to whatever comes along 3. Those that do it for fun but will only play gigs when it's fun for them, and want to pick and choose and will put other social arrangements before the band when it suits them. I'm firmly in camp #2, and the only issues I've had with those in #1 is when the band isn't getting enough paying gigs and they've had to leave - one for a functions band and one for playing on cruise ships. Those in #3 rub up just as badly against #2s as #1s (this sounds worse than intended, should probably have used A, B & C), albeit that #2s probably express this through lots of ongoing resentment and complaining rather than quitting the band because they need the income from the missed gigs. this isn't aimed as a criticism of #3s - life will get in the way, especially (back to the thread) family considerations. But they often need to work on how they deal with the rest of the band - one that springs to mind (wasn't in my band, fortunately) told his band that he thought it was completely unreasonable of them to expect him to play a decent paying gig that had been in the diary for months, the week before Christmas at a long standing venue because he and his girlfriend had bought tickets to go to a pantomime (a bit of a jokey Christmas treat) because not going to that would leave him out of pocket - no realisation that cancelling the gig would leave everybody else in the band out of pocket. If he'd had enough sense to check the band diary before booking the tickets it wouldn't have been a problem, and he wouldn't have been sacked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmccombe7 Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 (edited) I guess i'm in the #2 bracket. I'd play any gig the band arranged whether i enjoy it or not mainly because i've committed to the band. Whether or not i remained in that band is a different question altogether. Historically i've always picked bands that i liked the style of music so the gigs suited the band and me. Now i'm lookng at a function band that will play gigs i'm not a fan off but as long as the audience enjoy it then i will enjoy it. If an audience is with you on a gig there's no better satisfaction for me. I understand why guys need to earn a living from it tho and i respect any musician that does. Its a whole different ball game from why i play tho. I've always treated playing as a hobby rather than a profession no matter how much effort or time i put into it. Its something i can walk away from if i'm not satisfied with how things are going. For guys makng a living from it then its a more serious side as it pays the bills. Maybe that's selfish of me but having worked hard over the years in my day job i feel i've earned the right to that way of thinking. Most bands i've played in have a similar attitude. Its not a perfect situation for everyone but its worked ok for me over the years when i've walked away from playing in bands for years to concntrate on day job and then came back into it 7 yrs ago. Although i joke a bit about it Blue i do fully appreciate your situation and i fully respect that you pay the bills with the band earnings. Its not just a hobby to you its a full time job. You have my respect for taking that leap and just going for it. Dave Edited July 21, 2017 by dmccombe7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 (edited) [quote name='Monkey Steve' timestamp='1500654056' post='3339428'] I see it as a three way split. 1. Those that have to do it for money so want to play every paying gig 2. Those that do it for fun but playing gigs is more fun than not playing gigs so are happy to commit to whatever comes along 3. Those that do it for fun but will only play gigs when it's fun for them, and want to pick and choose and will put other social arrangements before the band when it suits them.[/quote] And some, like me, that do it for the money and still have fun. Whether your in 1, 2 or 3 if your not having fun there's a problem. Blue Edited July 22, 2017 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmccombe7 Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1500672875' post='3339602'] Whether your in 1, 2 or 3 if your not having fun there's a problem. Blue [/quote] And that sums it up perfectly. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 [quote name='Monkey Steve' timestamp='1500654056' post='3339428'] I see it as a three way split. 1. Those that have to do it for money so want to play every paying gig 2. Those that do it for fun but playing gigs is more fun than not playing gigs so are happy to commit to whatever comes along 3. Those that do it for fun but will only play gigs when it's fun for them, and want to pick and choose and will put other social arrangements before the band when it suits them. [/quote] #4 Being in a band is hard work and has costs associated with it. You're providing a service (albeit having fun while doing it) and should be adequately renumerated for it, even if it's just to cover those costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 #4 If anyone is making money out of my bass playing then I'm going to get paid as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 Bill Shankly was right when he said, "Someone said to me 'To you [i]football[/i] is a matter of [i]life[/i] or death!' and I said 'Listen, it's [i]more important than[/i] that'. Sorry to be boring, but anyone playing a musical instrument just for fun could find a dozen easier ways of amusing themselves. You can have as much fun in your life as your body and mind can take but IMO when the gig starts the focus is only on one thing. Return to your fun after the encore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmccombe7 Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 (edited) [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1500713811' post='3339706'] Bill Shankly was right when he said, "Someone said to me 'To you [i]football[/i] is a matter of [i]life[/i] or death!' and I said 'Listen, it's [i]more important than[/i] that'. Sorry to be boring, but anyone playing a musical instrument just for fun could find a dozen easier ways of amusing themselves. You can have as much fun in your life as your body and mind can take but IMO when the gig starts the focus is only on one thing. Return to your fun after the encore. [/quote] I enjoy it so why would i look for something else. Most people can be totally focused at playing and still have fun enjoying it. If i wasn't having fun and enjoying it i simply wouldn't do it. Are you saying you don't enjoy the actual playing part or are you differentiating between fun and enjoyment. I see them both as one and the same thing. Dave Edited July 22, 2017 by dmccombe7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 Just trying to make the point that the best music is made by people who are not having "fun". Bob Dylan, Charlie Parker and Mozart were probably having more fun than we've ever seen, but not when they were making their music. I'd say that fun, enjoyment and satisfaction are very different things and probably shouldn't be mixed up when you're playing in a band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmccombe7 Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1500715019' post='3339724'] Just trying to make the point that the best music is made by people who are not having "fun". Bob Dylan, Charlie Parker and Mozart were probably having more fun than we've ever seen, but not when they were making their music. I'd say that fun, enjoyment and satisfaction are very different things and probably shouldn't be mixed up when you're playing in a band. [/quote] Not sure i agree with you on that one Chris but everyone has their own way of looking at playing in bands and their own personal reasons. Surely the guys you mention would be enjoying their performances. I would say enjoyment is fun. I would have thought that with Mozart as the example he would be very focused in his performance but would he not gain his enjoyment from knowing he is playing his own arrangement exactly as it should be. I think i understand what you are saying tho that once you have completed the gig you can enjoy the fact you've played a fantastic gig. ? I would have to say tho that throughout most of my gigs i specifically think "this is great fun" at certain points. Probably think the opposite at certain points too Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1500715019' post='3339724']... I'd say that fun, enjoyment and satisfaction are very different things and probably shouldn't be mixed up when you're playing in a band. [/quote] ... and I would respectfully say 'Tosh..!' to this rather Puritanical attitude. To me, 'fun, enjoyment and satisfaction ' are the very staff of life itself, to be sought for in every minute of one's existence (provided it's not at other's expense...). S'a funny ol' world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepurpleblob Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1500713811' post='3339706'] Bill Shankly was right when he said, "Someone said to me 'To you [i]football[/i] is a matter of [i]life[/i] or death!' and I said 'Listen, it's [i]more important than[/i] that'. Sorry to be boring, but anyone playing a musical instrument just for fun could find a dozen easier ways of amusing themselves. You can have as much fun in your life as your body and mind can take but IMO when the gig starts the focus is only on one thing. Return to your fun after the encore. [/quote] I think you might be getting a bit semantic about the word "fun". I play music because I enjoy it, it's something different to the 9-5, I get to meet lots of weird people, etc. etc. However, when we're in a venue and charging money my attitude is entirely "professional". But I look forward to and enjoy playing. I don't always look forward to going to work on a Monday morning. I don't have much choice about going to work but I'd quite like to retain that choice about playing music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 OK, I'm splitting hairs. . . a bit. I'd class playing along the lines of satisfying, gratifying, rewarding etc. The bands I've seen "having fun" have usually been pretty hit and miss. Which is why I was trying to emphasise the difference. But, true, everyone to their own. On the other hand, fun is what we all definitely had after the gig. Party time? Oh yessss! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1500725651' post='3339813'] On the other hand, fun is what we all definitely had after the gig. Party time? Oh yessss! [/quote] Not sure what gigs you're doing these days Chris?? Last night after a (moderately successful) gig I exchanged pleasantries with a few punters, got paid, loaded up the car and then had a 45 minute drive home. Not at all unpleasant, but hardly party central...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 [quote name='peteb' timestamp='1500730857' post='3339853'] Last night after a (moderately successful) gig I exchanged pleasantries with a few punters, got paid, loaded up the car and then had a 45 minute drive home. Not at all unpleasant, but hardly party central...! [/quote] Well, yes. Same here. . . I was remembering the old days. Some days the high point of the evening is looking forward to R4 or the World Service on the drive way home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 (edited) [quote name='peteb' timestamp='1500730857' post='3339853'] Not sure what gigs you're doing these days Chris?? Last night after a (moderately successful) gig I exchanged pleasantries with a few punters, got paid, loaded up the car and then had a 45 minute drive home. Not at all unpleasant, but hardly party central...![/quote] Excellent point Pete I think, at the bar band level fun should be the priority. As a matter of fact whenever I arrive at a gig I start the process by creating a fun atmosphere. Not just for me but the whole band. It's really important. Guys, don't show up at a gig with a sour attitude. Your not that important. Blue Edited July 22, 2017 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len_derby Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1500764167' post='3340101'] Excellent point Pete I think, at the bar band level fun should be the priority. As a matter of fact whenever I arrive at a gig I start the process by creating a fun atmosphere. Not just for me but the whole band. It's really important. Guys, don't show up at a gig with a sour attitude. Your not that important. Blue [/quote] Similar to me Blue. I always say 'if we're not enjoying it how the hell can we expect the audience to?' Although sometimes it's about faking it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmccombe7 Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 I've never faked it. My wife was gonna give me some pointers on that tho. Nothing like a bit of fun to start off the gig. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telebass Posted July 23, 2017 Author Share Posted July 23, 2017 Weddings/corporate : no guests, period. That's 'professional' work, if you want to put it that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjones Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1500756621' post='3340052'] Well, yes. Same here. . . I was remembering the old days. Some days the high point of the evening is looking forward to R4 or the World Service on the drive way home. [/quote] Or 'Whispering' Bob Harris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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