Trace cab upgrade/neo drivers

[Zummerbass]

Has anyone gone down the road of swapping out the drivers in a Trace Elliot cab?

I'm specifically thinking of buying a 4x10 or (harder to find) a 2x12 and replacing the speakers with neo's.

I used to love my old TE cabs but would love them lighter.

Is this worth the bother. And expense!

[Phil Starr]

The thing is that it isn't the box that really gives the cab it's voicing, it's the speakers. So, you could replace the speakers and if you matched them carefully and were prepared to fiddle with the tuning of the cab then it could work, it might even sound quite nice. What it won't do is sound like a Trace. You'd have the cosmetics of a Trace only, but the sound of something different.

[Zummerbass]

I should have added that,in all probability I would use a TE head as well.

[Phil Starr]

The same thing still applies I'm afraid. It will sound like a Trace amp with a modern cab in all probability, on the plus side it will look like an all Trace stack.

[Beer of the Bass]

A lot of the weight of those old cabs is in the wood (I think at least some of them were MDF), so it may be only a little lighter with neodymium drivers.

[PaulWarning]

I replaced a Trace 1 x 15" speaker with an Eminance one (not a neo) to shave 5Kg off the weight, and it did sound a lot different, not as bassy which I didn't mind fortunately

[Dan Dare]

Need to watch the wiring if replacing TE 4x10 drivers. They used higher impedance Celesstions, wired in parallel, so you can't just duplicate the connections. If you use 4 or 8ohm drivers, you need to wire them in series/parallel (plenty of explanations online) to avoid ending up with 1 or 2 ohms total cab impedance. Apologies if you know this already - hope I'm not teaching my granny to suck eggs here.

[Zummerbass]

Dan Dare-Thanks for advice,something to consider. A 4 ohm cab would be more desirable than 8 ohm.

Would a AH 300 GP7SM be happy to run into a single 4 ohm cab?

[Dan Dare]

My old AH350/GP11 was, but not sure about yours. The back panel should tell you. Will say something like "4 ohms minimum impedance" next to the speaker out. You just need to ensure you don't go below that. Four 16 ohm drivers wired in parallel will give 4 ohms total cab impedance, so should be fine, but you would be best not to use an additional cab with it.

[Deedee]

[quote name='Zummerbass' timestamp='1490679439' post='3266894']
Dan Dare-Thanks for advice,something to consider. A 4 ohm cab would be more desirable than 8 ohm.

Would a AH 300 GP7SM be happy to run into a single 4 ohm cab?
[/quote]

You'll be fine. I've played all of my TE heads through 4ohm BF cabs for several years. Either one 4ohm or two 8ohms. As per the previous post though, no lower than 4ohms 👀

[Treb]

[quote name='Deedee' timestamp='1490723247' post='3267422']
As per the previous post though, no lower than 4ohms
[/quote]

Go lower than 4 ohms and the amp will possibly release its magic smoke and perform a meltdown.

[Zummerbass]

AH300 GP7 acquired. Now for the cab.

Looking around it would seem Trace cabs are predominately 8 ohm. Anyone know if a 4 ohm 4x10 or 2x12 existed?

[Merton]

If you're replacing the drivers you can buy suitable impedances to wire it to 4 ohms so it makes no difference what's already in there

[PaulWarning]

seems risky to me, 4 neo speaker ain't cheap and you don't really know what it's going sound like.

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='Zummerbass' timestamp='1490560791' post='3266016']
Is this worth the bother. And expense!
[/quote]

No. Your playing a lottery as what its going to sound like, and whatever you end up with is going to have little resale value. I cant imagine any scenario where you'd be better off doing this rather than just selling the cab and getting a new one that does exactly what you want.

[tauzero]

You could try stripping the depleted uranium lining out of the cab.

[Chienmortbb]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1490609772' post='3266309']
A lot of the weight of those old cabs is in the wood (I think at least some of them were MDF), so it may be only a little lighter with neodymium drivers.
[/quote]I had a conversation with an ex Trace employee and he told me they used MDF as it was sonically better than even Birch plywood.

[Phil Starr]

Yes if you really wanted a lighter Trace it might be better to mount the Trace Drivers in a lighter cab. MDF has great sonic properties (mass, youngs modulus, uniformity and self damping) but isn't great for a portable cab. It's heavy, goes soft and distorts if it gets wet, and isn't as tough as ply. With the same drivers in the same shaped cab it'd pretty much keep the original sound give or take a panel resonance.

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1491298985' post='3271872']
Yes if you really wanted a lighter Trace it might be better to mount the Trace Drivers in a lighter cab. MDF has great sonic properties (mass, youngs modulus, uniformity and self damping) but isn't great for a portable cab. It's heavy, goes soft and distorts if it gets wet, and isn't as tough as ply. With the same drivers in the same shaped cab it'd pretty much keep the original sound give or take a panel resonance.
[/quote]not entirely sure about this, Trace drivers are bloody heavy, as I said earlier I shaved 5Kg off a 1 x 15 T E cab by installing a non neo eminance driver I had around, reduced the weight from 25Kg to 20, did alter the sound though

[Zummerbass]

I found an old Trace catalogue-42kg for a 1048H. 45kg for a 2x12! Them were the days.

Thanks for all the info and advice. Now thinking this wouldn't achieve much. Apart from the visual aspect of matching a rig.

[Phil Starr]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1491304138' post='3271927']
not entirely sure about this, Trace drivers are bloody heavy, as I said earlier I shaved 5Kg off a 1 x 15 T E cab by installing a non neo eminance driver I had around, reduced the weight from 25Kg to 20, did alter the sound though
[/quote]
You are probably right. Poplar ply is about 60% less dense than MDF and you could swap for thinner board with some decent bracing. I reckon you could save half the weight of the cab this way, possibly that is about 10kg?

You'd certainly notice that when shifting the cab, I know when I'm at the gym 5kg is enough to move something from lift-able to feeling like it's nailed to the floor. As a complete cab it would still be pretty heavy of course. Whether it is worth all the effort I don't know. Four neo drivers wouldn't be cheap, I wonder how much it would cost to have a custom made cab?